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#27 Aug 23 2010 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
I'm willing to take the chance the doctor's wrong, myself, as evidently was the judge.
#28 Aug 23 2010 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Samira wrote:
I don't understand the dilemma.


Because on the one hand you are excusing the public for supporting the release on compassionate grounds because that the doctor (an expert) told them he only had 3 months to live. And on the other hand, you are excusing the doctor because he did say that the guy might live longer. You seem to want to simultaneously argue that the public wasn't mislead about his chances of living longer *and* that the public responded reasonably given the circumstances they were presented to (which ironically includes the false perception that he only had 3 months to live).

My point is that maybe next time we don't do this for precisely the reason that the doctor might be wrong, or the diagnosis might be misreported to the public?

Not only have you missed the point, the point you are arguing makes no fucking sense. Those two positions are in no way exclusive. Never, ever, ever try to boast of your logic skills ever again, please.

#29 Aug 23 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
My point is that maybe next time we don't do this for precisely the reason that the doctor might be wrong, or the diagnosis might be misreported to the public?



"The public" had nothing to do with the decision to release him. The decision was taken by the Scottish government. Maybe you should preach to them.

My opinion would have been the same if the prognosis was less than a year instead of 3 months. That's also disregarding the fact that he was probably innocent.

From your own quote:
Quote:
I'm split on this one. I don't truly believe he had a lot, if anything, to do with it.
#30 Aug 23 2010 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Just found it amusing that the guy released cause he's got 3 months to live and it's the right thing to do, end out living just fine and may continue for years to come. Who could have seen that coming?


Allahu akbar.

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#31 Aug 23 2010 at 7:09 PM Rating: Default
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feelz wrote:
Quote:
My point is that maybe next time we don't do this for precisely the reason that the doctor might be wrong, or the diagnosis might be misreported to the public?



"The public" had nothing to do with the decision to release him. The decision was taken by the Scottish government. Maybe you should preach to them.


The public allowed it because they were told that the man only had 3 months to live. If the public (either in the US or in the UK) had been told that this guy could live 10 more years with proper treatment, do you think he would have been released? Don't underestimate the degree to which public pressure will affect decisions like this. And in this case, it appears as though the public was sold a story designed to get them to allow something they otherwise would not.

Quote:
My opinion would have been the same if the prognosis was less than a year instead of 3 months. That's also disregarding the fact that he was probably innocent.


And now we get to the truth. You think he might have been innocent, so you're ok with a lie being perpetrated to get him out of his life sentence. Um... Why not appeal his conviction instead? The danger with this is what happens when the next time it *isn't* someone you think was innocent, but it's beneficial to the government to do so anyway (some kind of backroom deal, say)?

It's a moronic way to do this. And yeah. It's pretty transparent that there were elements in the UK who thought they'd unfairly convicted this guy, but they couldn't get enough support for an appeal or retry of the case, so they cooked up an especially gloomy prognosis in order to get it done anyway. And while I'm as much in favor of making sure people get fair trials as the next guy, this is the wrong way to do it.


Quote:
From your own quote:
Quote:
I'm split on this one. I don't truly believe he had a lot, if anything, to do with it.


And? I'm not sure what your point is here. So because some people thought he might be innocent, it's ok for the public to be mislead about his health? How the hell does that make sense?
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#32 Aug 23 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not excusing anyone, because - and I know this is a hard concept for you - I don't think, based on the facts I have, that anyone did anything wrong.

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#33 Aug 23 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
manicshock wrote:
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
Yes, that's the joke.


Figured I'd put the video with the joke. Didn't hurt to get the +1 too.
#34 Aug 24 2010 at 8:25 AM Rating: Decent
gbaji wrote:
Quote:
My opinion would have been the same if the prognosis was less than a year instead of 3 months. That's also disregarding the fact that he was probably innocent.


And now we get to the truth. You think he might have been innocent, so you're ok with a lie being perpetrated to get him out of his life sentence. Um... Why not appeal his conviction instead? The danger with this is what happens when the next time it *isn't* someone you think was innocent, but it's beneficial to the government to do so anyway (some kind of backroom deal, say)?


Are you saying he doesn't have terminal prostate cancer?
#35 Aug 24 2010 at 8:29 AM Rating: Decent
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What lie?

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#36 Aug 24 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
Samira wrote:
What lie?


Obviously the doctor lied since the guy didn't die three months after the doctor estimated he would.
#37 Aug 24 2010 at 9:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Samira wrote:
What lie?


Obviously the doctor lied to get the guy out so he could go and kill people
Smiley: nod
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#38 Aug 24 2010 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
protip: if you are going to link an old thread to criticize people for their posts, you probably want to actually have posted in the original thread what you, yourself, thought.

#39 Aug 24 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Default
So once again the compassion crowd types(tulip, nobby, samy, etc) allow a radical muslim mass murderer to roam free to talk about his triumph over western society. And somehow this doesn't hurt anyone.



#40 Aug 24 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Default
Kael,

Perhaps you should re-visit the word "terminal"; and when you're through you can e-mail it to that quack doctor.




#41 Aug 24 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
varusword75 wrote:
So once again the compassion crowd types(tulip, nobby, samy, etc) allow a radical muslim mass murderer to roam free to talk about his triumph over western society. And somehow this doesn't hurt anyone.


Yes. It's completely our fault that the Scottish government let him go home.
#42 Aug 24 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
I'm not excusing anyone, because - and I know this is a hard concept for you - I don't think, based on the facts I have, that anyone did anything wrong.



So releasing a terrorist convicted of killing over a hundred people on the grounds that he only had 3 months to live, who then lives another year with doctors now estimating he might live another 10 wasn't wrong? Are you saying there isn't some lesson to learn here? Nothing at all?
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#43 Aug 24 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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Sometimes people get better/live longer even though doctors think they won't? I believe that was covered in the judges assessment.
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#44 Aug 24 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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Since he was supposed to die after 3 months, I say we kill him now.
#45 Aug 24 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Sometimes people get better/live longer even though doctors think they won't? I believe that was covered in the judges assessment.


Yeah. Here's the way I see it. Either the doctor was flat our lying, or he made one of the worst diagnoses in history. But let's just pretend it was an honest mistake for the sake of argument. What was "wrong" was that the politicians should not have pushed for release based on that diagnosis. And the people were wrong to have gone along with the idea that he should be released based on that diagnosis. And the judge was wrong to have allowed the release as well.


That's how many people "did something wrong". He was convicted of a crime and sentenced to live in prison. That usually means you serve in prison until the day you die. Whether that happens in 6 months, 6 years, or 60 years is irrelevant. The correct response to a diagnosis that he's only got three months to live should have been that he's only got three more months to serve on his sentence.

It's bad enough that he was released on those grounds, period. It's made infinitely worse given just how far off that diagnosis was.
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#46 Aug 24 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, you disagree with the decision, that doesn't mean anyone did anything wrong. There is room within the Justice system for compassion.
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#47 Aug 24 2010 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
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Hey Gbaji. You wanna talk about Luis Posada Carriles?
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#48 Aug 24 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
But let's just pretend it was an honest mistake for the sake of argument. What was "wrong" was that the politicians should not have pushed for release based on that diagnosis.


Why not? Were they supposed to foretell that the diagnosis was wrong? Should politicians now overrule medical advice based on their... intuition?

Quote:
And the people were wrong to have gone along with the idea that he should be released based on that diagnosis.


They weren't wrong, they exercised their judgement based on the information available to them, like most rational people do.

And no one ever marched for the release of that guy... The majority of people in the US and the UK, including Scotland, were indifferent at best, slightly against his release at worst. You vastly overestimate the influence that Nobby, Kavekk and I have in the UK, just like Varrus overestimates Tulip and Samira's influence over the US and Scottish government...

Quote:
And the judge was wrong to have allowed the release as well.


Technically, he was perfectly right. How can a judge act on anything but the evidence that he has? You really blame all these people for not having the power to remotely give a prognosis on someone else's cancer?

I still stand by my opinion in the original thread. And I still think you need psychiatric help. You see conspiracies everywhere, it just can't be healthy man.
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#49 Aug 24 2010 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
varusword75 wrote:
So once again the compassion crowd types(tulip, nobby, samy, etc) allow a radical muslim mass murderer to roam free to talk about his triumph over western society. And somehow this doesn't hurt anyone.


I hand't realized that Belk, Sam and Nobbs were in control of the Scottish Government. That's awesome, congrats guys. Can you do something about haggis?

I swear with every name change you get more thick.
#50 Aug 24 2010 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
So releasing a terrorist convicted of killing over a hundred people on the grounds that he only had 3 months to live, who then lives another year with doctors now estimating he might live another 10 wasn't wrong? Are you saying there isn't some lesson to learn here? Nothing at all?


That doctors are fallible?

Woohoo! Lesson learned guys! I'm soooo glad we got that cleared up.
#51 Aug 24 2010 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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