Prop 8 OverturnedFollow

Certainly, one would not be constrained by DADT if they simply had homosexual feelings but never acted on them, right? That rule only causes problems if they are in an active sexual relationship.

That the member has stated that he or she is a homosexual or bisexual, or words to that effect, unless there is a further finding, made and approved in accordance with procedures set forth in the regulations, that the member has demonstrated that he or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in, has a propensity to engage in, or intends to engage in homosexual acts.

oh and red text sucks, I can't read it all...

No one wants to make the US Army a big buttsex club

What you are failing to understand is that a lot of people have to "closet" who they are to be successful in the military. As a black officer, there are whole set of unwritten rules that I have to follow. How do you think I felt when I learned that AFTER I joined. I was so pissed and disappointed, that I wanted out, but I matured.

Women have it worse, especially ethnic minority women because they get the worst of both worlds. We all have to conform to some image following all of these written and unwritten rules to be successful. This is what I'm trying to get you all to understand. The problem is, you all think that there are no logical explanations for discrimination to occur against homosexuals. If homosexuality is being discriminated against, then it MUST be because of fear, bigotry, hatred, etc. and that it is ONLY homosexuality that's being discriminated against.

That's just silly.. Rather the original cause was based off of those negative feelings, there still exists logical explanations, which I've already stated. It's simple, all or nothing.

Except that with the case of homosexuality, it can be said to be. Right or wrong, homosexuality is presumed to be connected with active sexual activity.

Why would a homosexual feel the need to "declare their sexuality". It does not, and should not matter from a military perspective. In the same way that heterosexuals don't run around announcing that they are straight. The issue isn't about sexuality, it's about sexual behavior. It often gets framed in the context of "gays in the military", but that's just a simplification of the issue. You cannot be thrown out of the military for simply "being gay". There kinda has to be some evidence of associated sexual activity.

I don't personally think this is the greatest line of reasoning in this issue, but there is validity to it.

I suppose we could argue that the military should eliminate those rules first rather than just making what would otherwise appear to be exceptions for homosexuals.

I can't pretend that I know the real reasons, only say what I've observed.

For the minority and women portion, it's because it's still unequal. Over all, we can say it is, but if you're anything other than a "standard white guy", you have to behave a certain way to make sure that you're treated fairly. That's really nothing different from regular life, it's just more in your face in the military because you will have higher ranking people of your "kind" constantly telling you what you can or can't do in order to set you up for success. I haven't seen it done maliciously, but the end result is still the same, you can't be you.

As for the "image", ever wonder why many military vets are usually republican? It's because they share similar views on morals, values, etc. Even though it's taboo to talk about religion, we have prayers at every formal event. The military supports the husband/wife 2.5 kids and a dog type of family. They support other forms as time changed, but that's why I *believe* the original reason for the ban on homosexuality.

This is why I said it would be contradictory just to change homosexuality bans. It's unrealistic to change all of the unwritten rules, but the laws on adultery, sodomy and other relationship bans are more realistic to attack.

You have to paint yourself white? If not, it's not exactly comparable.

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Why not nothing? Why not get rid of the "unwritten rules" for blacks, women, and gays? If the whole infrastructure of the US Army can be destroyed by the acceptance of minority groups, something is seriously @#%^ed in the first place

I read this, and what I heard was, "Everyone is discriminated against. Why should we fix the easy ones?"

We should make progress. Take steps forward, not steps back. I'm sorry you feel that you can't be yourself in the military. I'm even more sorry that instead of working to help change that, you conform and try to force others to do the same.

thanks for pointing that out to me..

Jene Newsome played by the rules as an Air Force sergeant: She never told anyone in the military she was a lesbian.

"I played by 'don't ask, don't tell,’” Newsome told The Associated Press by telephone.

"I just don't agree with what the Rapid City police department did. ... They violated a lot of internal policies on their end, and I feel like my privacy was violated."

The Rapid City Police Department says Newsome, an aircraft armament system craftsman who spent nine years in the Air Force, was not cooperative when they showed up at her home Nov. 20 with an arrest warrant for her partner, who was wanted on theft charges in Fairbanks, Alaska.

Newsome was at work at the base at the time and refused to immediately come home and assist the officers in finding her partner, whom she married in Iowa -- where gay marriage is legal -- in October.

The 28-year-old's honorable discharge under the "don't ask, don't tell" policy came only after police officers alerted the base.

The license was relevant to the investigation because it showed both the relationship and residency of the two women, police Chief Steve Allender said in a statement sent to the AP.

"It's an emotional issue, and it's unfortunate that Newsome lost her job, but I disagree with the notion that our department might be expected to ignore the license, or not document the license or withhold it from the Air Force once we did know about it," Allender said Saturday. "It was a part of the case, part of the report, and the Air Force was privileged to the information."

Newsome, who was discharged in January, said she didn't know where the marriage license was in her home when police came to her house Nov. 20 and claims the officers were retaliating because she wouldn't help with her partner's arrest.

Newsome's partner is out on bail on one felony and three misdemeanor counts of theft stemming from an incident last year, court officials in Fairbanks, Alaska, said. More information was not immediately available, and Newsome said she didn't know the status of the case and didn't provide more details about it.

Newsome and the American Civil Liberties Union have filed a complaint against the Rapid City police department, claiming the officers violated her privacy when they informed the military about her sexual orientation.

In the complaint, filed last month with the department, ACLU South Dakota said police had no legal reason to tell the military Newsome was a lesbian and that officers knew if they did, it would jeopardize her military career.

"This information was intentionally turned over because of 'don't ask, don't tell' and to out Jene so that she would lose her military status," said Robert Doody, executive director of ACLU South Dakota. The ACLU is focusing its complaint on the police department, not the military, and Newsome said she and her attorney have not yet decided on whether to file a lawsuit.

"The 'don't ask, don't tell' piece is important and critical to this, but also it's a police misconduct case," Doody said.

Allender said his department does not seek to expose gay military personnel or investigate the sexuality of Rapid City residents.

Allender said the department was finishing its internal investigation and has determined the officers acted appropriately. They have not been placed on leave during the investigation.

The case also highlights concerns over the ability of third parties to "out" service members, especially as the Pentagon has started reviewing the 1993 "don't ask, don't tell" law.

The "don't ask, don't tell" policy has come under renewed debate after Defense Secretary Robert Gates called for a sweeping internal study on the law earlier this year.

As the review is under way, officials were also expected to suggest ways to relax enforcement that may include minimizing cases of third-party outings. In particular, Gates has suggested that the military might not have to expel someone whose sexual orientation was revealed by a third party out of vindictiveness or suspect motives.

Senior Airman Adam Grant, a U.S. Air Force spokesman, said Ellsworth follows all laws set out by Congress and the Defense Department, and he would not comment specifically on Newsome's discharge, citing privacy policy.

More than 13,500 service members have been discharged under the law since 1994, according to the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, which is lobbying for its repeal. Kevin Nix, communications director of the Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit, couldn't speak about Newsome's case but said when "someone is outed by a third party, which it sounds like this was, or by a police officer, then, yeah ... I'm not surprised the person was discharged."

Though rare, third-party outing can be especially damaging to service members who wanted to keep their sexual orientation hidden, experts say.

Even though 80 percent of "don't ask, don't tell" discharges come from gay and lesbian service members who out themselves, third-party outings are "some of the most heinous instances of 'don't, ask, don't tell,’” said Nathaniel Frank, a research fellow with the Palm Center think tank at the University of California, Santa Barbara and a New York University professor.

Newsome, who is originally from Harrisburg, Pa., is currently on the road, driving to Alaska. She said she had been looking forward to the time when the military would alter its policies regarding gays and lesbians. But that change didn't come in time to save her career.

"I felt like it was getting close," she said. "I was really hopeful."