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#1402 Aug 22 2010 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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#1403Almalieque, Posted: Aug 22 2010 at 6:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yea, it seems like a combination of not reading, poor comprehension and the Strawman... That's a good observation on the forum..
#1404 Aug 22 2010 at 6:32 PM Rating: Default
Holy **** is that catchy.
#1405 Aug 22 2010 at 8:54 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Almalieque wrote:
Paul Gasol wrote:
As far as I can tell, from skimming a sample of Armalicks posts, the majority of them seem to be him (or her. Havn't been ***** to figure that out yet) trying to explain what his/her previous post was about.

Perhaps Alma needs to take a lesson from that?


Yea, it seems like a combination of not reading, poor comprehension and the Strawman... That's a good observation on the forum..
Knowing is half the battle. I'll keep hoping that one day you'll learn.
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Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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#1406 Aug 23 2010 at 1:34 AM Rating: Decent
Once again in a thread about SSM Almalique makes me want to rip my own **** off and feed it to rabid animals out of frustration and the fierce desire to no longer share the same genus with a being capable of such blunt retardation, as well as the fear that my ***** could one day create something something so viciously dumb. If I weren't gay.
#1407Almalieque, Posted: Aug 23 2010 at 6:31 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes, because this is about fear. Who knew that realizing the difference between "equal" and "fair" leads to retardation. Darn the English language and its ability to have similar words referring to different situations!! That's Retardation!!!11!!1!1!
#1408 Aug 23 2010 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
Almalieque wrote:
Kaelesh wrote:
Which, we don't have to, because we have a magical law already in place to deal with this. The Equal Protection Clause under the 14th amendment. Case @#%^ing closed.


Honest question, then how come we're in the situation that we're in now?


Largely because of bigots, racists, masochists and homophobes.

But considering we cleared up that problem with the blacks and the ********** with the women, I'm confident we can suss out the ***** haters. Just gonna take time.
#1409 Aug 23 2010 at 8:59 AM Rating: Default
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Kaelesh wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Kaelesh wrote:
Which, we don't have to, because we have a magical law already in place to deal with this. The Equal Protection Clause under the 14th amendment. Case @#%^ing closed.


Honest question, then how come we're in the situation that we're in now?


Largely because of bigots, racists, masochists and homophobes.

But considering we cleared up that problem with the blacks and the ********** with the women, I'm confident we can suss out the ***** haters. Just gonna take time.


Follow on questions.

1. So if California decided to make it illegal for women to vote, do you think there would be an ongoing court battle like with prop 8?

2. What is YOUR definition of a "homophobe" and do you think it's possible for someone to not support SSM and NOT be a homophobe?
#1410 Aug 23 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
1. So if California decided to make it illegal for women to vote, do you think there would be an ongoing court battle like with prop 8?

Well, it would be a very short court battle. But there would be one.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1411 Aug 23 2010 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
Almalieque wrote:
1. So if California decided to make it illegal for women to vote, do you think there would be an ongoing court battle like with prop 8?


Of fucking course there would be. Are you dense or just trying to mess with someone?

Quote:
2. What is YOUR definition of a "homophobe" and do you think it's possible for someone to not support SSM and NOT be a homophobe?


No. Beyond that it doesn't matter what my definition is.
#1412 Aug 23 2010 at 9:21 AM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
1. So if California decided to make it illegal for women to vote, do you think there would be an ongoing court battle like with prop 8?

Well, it would be a very short court battle. But there would be one.


Yes, there would be a court battle, but it wouldn't be anything to the level of prop 8. You said yourself, it would be a very short court battle. Why is that?
#1413 Aug 23 2010 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Because the right for women to vote is clearly codified in the 19th Amendment whereas the (constitutional) legal battle for same sex marriage relies on the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment which requires more judicial review. Which isn't to say that it's any less legitimate -- the court recognizes other rights not explicitly spelled out -- but that it's not as cut and dry.

On the other hand, there has been "violations" of other explicit constitutional rights which resulted in lengthy court battles and were even upheld; namely ones related to free speech and the practice of religion. The brevity of the court battle over women's suffrage would be due to the egregious scope of its violation, not just because it was a violation.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#1414 Aug 23 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Because the right for women to vote is clearly codified in the 19th Amendment whereas the (constitutional) legal battle for same sex marriage relies on the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment which requires more judicial review.
Not to mention, 1/3 of the SCOTUS is women. I think they'd not need much deliberation.




Edited, Aug 23rd 2010 5:56pm by Elinda
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#1415 Aug 23 2010 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
2. What is YOUR definition of a "homophobe" and do you think it's possible for someone to not support SSM and NOT be a homophobe?


Homophobe: Someone who is uncomfortable or afraid of the idea of human beings liking other human beings of the same gender, to the point where they want to deny them their basic humanity as a means of punishment for making them feel uncomfortable.

And no, it's not possible for someone to not support SSM and not be a homophobe. Denying someone equal treatment under the law is pretty clearly a violation of their rights and humanity. You're a bigot no matter which way you cut it.
#1416 Aug 23 2010 at 10:57 AM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Because the right for women to vote is clearly codified in the 19th Amendment whereas the (constitutional) legal battle for same sex marriage relies on the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment which requires more judicial review. Which isn't to say that it's any less legitimate -- the court recognizes other rights not explicitly spelled out -- but that it's not as cut and dry.

On the other hand, there has been "violations" of other explicit constitutional rights which resulted in lengthy court battles and were even upheld; namely ones related to free speech and the practice of religion. The brevity of the court battle over women's suffrage would be due to the egregious scope of its violation, not just because it was a violation.


Thank you for answering my question.

Catwho wrote:
Homophobe: Someone who is uncomfortable or afraid of the idea of human beings liking other human beings of the same gender,


This is evidence on why the word "homophobe" doesn't make any sense. You can't cram multiple unrelated meanings into one word and then label them "homophobe", which could be any of those definitions.

People like to say "fear", but I doubt many people are actually afraid of homosexuality.

As for me, I can, have and will talk to homosexual males and disregarded the fact that I think that is utterly disgusting. But when they start to get a little too friendly, i.e jokes with innuendos, etc. that makes me uncomfortable. You can't possibly label that as a homophobia.

Catwho wrote:
to the point where they want to deny them their basic humanity as a means of punishment for making them feel uncomfortable.


This is way outfield..

I also doubt most people wake up thinking what "human right" that they can take away from homosexuals to punish them. That's absolutely absurd. Hate groups such as the KKK, sure, but the average person who disagrees with homosexuality, no. I'm sure that no legitimate thought is put on homosexuals from the average person, just the every so often uncomfortable or disagreement feeling when a topic arises.

catwho wrote:
And no, it's not possible for someone to not support SSM and not be a homophobe. Denying someone equal treatment under the law is pretty clearly a violation of their rights and humanity. You're a bigot no matter which way you cut it.


Well, you're wrong. When you decide to accept the fact that there is a difference between an equal law and a fair law, you'll understand that. An equal law is the exact same for everyone, regardless of who you are. A fair law is genuinely an equal law with exceptions to attend to certain people's needs.

Secondly, it is very possible to have a definition of marriage that excludes members of society without having bigotry. What big and nasty word do you have for people who disagrees with polygamy and all of those other denied members?

These childish name calling is nothing but a mere scare tactic to persuade people to support their cause. If you don't allow me to have multiple wives then you're prejudice against MY religion. It couldn't possibly be any other reason to deny multiple spouses other than you're afraid of MY religion and you want MY religion to be punished, because of course, you're a bigot and a polygamiphobe!!....

That's just silly..
#1417 Aug 23 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Alma&c wrote:
People like to say "fear", but I doubt many people are actually afraid of homosexuality.


Numerous beatings and murders of gays with a defense of "he came on to me!" argues otherwise.

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At trial, the defendants offered various rationales to justify their actions. They originally pled the gay panic defense, arguing that they were driven to temporary insanity by alleged sexual advances by Shepard.


The fact that there's even such a thing as a "gay panic defense" argues that homophobia is real.

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#1418 Aug 23 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:


This is way outfield..

I also doubt most people wake up thinking what "human right" that they can take away from homosexuals to punish them. That's absolutely absurd. Hate groups such as the KKK, sure, but the average person who disagrees with homosexuality, no. I'm sure that no legitimate thought is put on homosexuals from the average person, just the every so often uncomfortable or disagreement feeling when a topic arises.

Most people maybe not, but enough people spend time and dollars to insure that homosexuals don't marry to their own sex.

The facts are not on your side.
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#1419 Aug 23 2010 at 11:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:

As for me, I can, have and will talk to homosexual males and disregarded the fact that I think that is utterly disgusting. But when they start to get a little too friendly, i.e jokes with innuendos, etc. that makes me uncomfortable. You can't possibly label that as a homophobia.
Phobias are irrational.

I doubt that any self-respecting gay man would hit on you, so I can safely say that you have the irrational part down pretty well.
#1420 Aug 23 2010 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
Not only is homophobia unreal, so are gays. Yeah, they're just an invention of the far right to keep their base on side.

You heard me, Bard. You don't really exist at all.
#1421 Aug 23 2010 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
Not only is homophobia unreal, so are gays. Yeah, they're just an invention of the far right to keep their base on side.

You heard me, Bard. You don't really exist at all.
Plato was a self-denying gay.
#1422 Aug 23 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Because the right for women to vote is clearly codified in the 19th Amendment whereas the (constitutional) legal battle for same sex marriage relies on the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment which requires more judicial review. Which isn't to say that it's any less legitimate -- the court recognizes other rights not explicitly spelled out -- but that it's not as cut and dry.

On the other hand, there has been "violations" of other explicit constitutional rights which resulted in lengthy court battles and were even upheld; namely ones related to free speech and the practice of religion. The brevity of the court battle over women's suffrage would be due to the egregious scope of its violation, not just because it was a violation.


Thank you for answering my question.

Catwho wrote:
Homophobe: Someone who is uncomfortable or afraid of the idea of human beings liking other human beings of the same gender,


This is evidence on why the word "homophobe" doesn't make any sense. You can't cram multiple unrelated meanings into one word and then label them "homophobe", which could be any of those definitions.

People like to say "fear", but I doubt many people are actually afraid of homosexuality.

As for me, I can, have and will talk to homosexual males and disregarded the fact that I think that is utterly disgusting. But when they start to get a little too friendly, i.e jokes with innuendos, etc. that makes me uncomfortable. You can't possibly label that as a homophobia.

Catwho wrote:
to the point where they want to deny them their basic humanity as a means of punishment for making them feel uncomfortable.


This is way outfield..

I also doubt most people wake up thinking what "human right" that they can take away from homosexuals to punish them. That's absolutely absurd. Hate groups such as the KKK, sure, but the average person who disagrees with homosexuality, no. I'm sure that no legitimate thought is put on homosexuals from the average person, just the every so often uncomfortable or disagreement feeling when a topic arises.

catwho wrote:
And no, it's not possible for someone to not support SSM and not be a homophobe. Denying someone equal treatment under the law is pretty clearly a violation of their rights and humanity. You're a bigot no matter which way you cut it.


Well, you're wrong. When you decide to accept the fact that there is a difference between an equal law and a fair law, you'll understand that. An equal law is the exact same for everyone, regardless of who you are. A fair law is genuinely an equal law with exceptions to attend to certain people's needs.
You're claiming it's acceptable to treat a group of individuals fairly because you find their lifestyle disgusting. Sounds like homophobia to me.

It doesn't matter what you call it - equality, fairness, rights whatever. You're willing to make the distinction. You don't distinguish between groups randomly. You don't simply say red-headed peeps should be treated differently than others, simply because they have red hair. People don't work that way and you know. You can talk your way around it, but the bottom line is if you want to treat gays differently, it's because you don't want to treat them the same. Why?...because you find it disgusting? because you think it will erode the american way of life?

Instead of asking everyone here to support their argument, and then asking them again in different words, and then asking it of another person and then pretending you don't understand, and they jumping on a single word and disputing it's meaning, and then being really stupid again - explain your position.

Why do you think gay people should be denied the ability to marry one another? I don't want to hear about rights or fairness or equality. What harm would come to you your neighbors or our society for allowing two same sex people to marry?

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#1423Almalieque, Posted: Aug 23 2010 at 11:42 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Really? "Gay panic defense". Are you really buying that? This is further evidence of what you all told me about the legal system. It's not about the truth, but about winning a case. Well, you can't do anything to me if I were insane at the time, so I plead "temporary insanity". I was completely sane up until the exact second I killed him, I went completely craaaaazy... Read my statement above.
#1424 Aug 23 2010 at 11:49 AM Rating: Default
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I'll respond to the rest later, but I had to single this out. Evidence of poor comprehension and lack of reading at it's finest.


Elinda wrote:
You're claiming it's acceptable to treat a group of individuals fairly because you find their lifestyle disgusting. Sounds like homophobia to me.


Almalieque, The all knowing wrote:
As for me, I can, have and will talk to homosexual males and disregarded the fact that I think that is utterly disgusting. But when they start to get a little too friendly, i.e jokes with innuendos, etc. that makes me uncomfortable.


Really? Did you even bother to read or comprehend that or is it written too poorly for you to understand?

Not only did I say the exact opposite of what you said, I didn't even mention anything about SSM. You just through that in as some fictional argument...

sheesh.. pure nonsense.. I'll be back later

Edited, Aug 23rd 2010 7:50pm by Almalieque
#1425 Aug 23 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm buying that there is such a thing. I don't buy into its legitimacy.

Violence is a common reaction to fear, by the way. I would think you'd know that. A huge part of military training is controlling and channeling that reaction, after all. Regardless, bigotry + anger = something close enough to fear as makes no difference, either physically or socially.

And you actually said "many" people, which is even more subjective (and less restrictive) than "most". There have been thousands and thousands of these incidents. That, to me, says "many".

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#1426 Aug 23 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
Looking up the actual word, it has three meanings. The first is unreasonable fear or antipahty of homosexuality. The second is intense hatred or fear of homosexuality. The third (which says it's a medical definition) is irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.

Honestly, it's usually a word I try to steer clear of, but apparently it really is acceptable in any and all of these situations.
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