Prop 8 OverturnedFollow

Since you don't believe it is fair, why are you against changing it to make it fair?

Surely you aren't still riding that "it's already unfair and will always be unfair so it is pointless" argument.

So you don't believe individual reasons for legislation can be investigated after the fact?

Ok then. You're wrong but I'm fine with that.

I remember having an argument with my mom over some aspect of gay rights way back when. It was before my brother came out, because I immediately thought of that argument and wondered whether her opinion would have been modified had she known at the time. He was her favorite, so I imagine it would have.

The rational is different for each part of marriage. So the rational to guarantee spouses hospital visits is different then the rational to allow filing join tax returns, which is different from the rational behind the inheritance laws.

Missing the point as usual. I'm asking for specific examples of the reasoning behind marriage laws, not general ****. We're talking about marriage laws. So take a specific benefit and find what the rational is.

I think your 10K title should be

Almalique
thinks he understands.

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 1:58pm by Xsarus

I've said at least 3 times in this thread alone, I have my personal opinions against it but, if someone presented a logical argument, I wouldn't oppose it. I'm simply countering illogical arguments such as "It's discriminatory!!!" Then turn around and say marriage should be between two sound adults... Or simply "it's not fair", because marriage isn't fair to a lot of groups of people.

I personally care less about Adam and Steve getting married as I do other things in life that are far more important. I just know that if same sex marriage is accepted because of some poor argument, then it will only cause a horrible snow ball effect in other laws.

Alma prefers the government to restrict people as much as possible

One thing to keep in mind is that common law marriage isn't necessarily about time, per say, but more about presentation. In general, in states where common law marriage is allowed, the requirements are 1) Co-habitation (usually, the two have to be living together, but not for any specific amount of time) and 2) Presentation (they have to present themselves as married e.g. file taxes together, fill out forms using the last names of each other, etc.). Of course, once they're married by common law, it's as good as going down to the court house and filling out a marriage license application.

Now, as far as the "Church" goes, at least here in America, it really isn't fair to talk of organized religion as this great monolith that has all one belief, when it really isn't. I'm sure that if one goes around far enough, one can find a church somewhere that will marry a couple without having to go through the legal hurdles. Now, would that marriage be legally enforcible? Not immediately, but assuming the couple lives in those few states that allow it, common law marriage would marry them.

As far as the "social stigma" is concerned, well, I haven't really seen it. It's rarely talked about, or even known about. And it's extremely rare to see in popular media.



Well, that's your view of things. Looking at the history of things, I will disagree with you here.

Well, you were trying to answer my question, but instead answered one I didn't ask. So yeah, pretty much missed the point. I understand though, it's easier to just pretend we're talking about something else when you don't have an answer.

not uniformly though. Some might, some might not, most would have nothing to do with sex at all.

you interpret wrong? refer to my earlier post about you deciding what people are saying and arguing with it regardless of actual post content.

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 2:52pm by Xsarus

*shrug* You're wrong. When someone has real evidence of this overarching rationale, lemme know, kkthx~~la

My point is, one of the "same marriage restrictions" you're talking about (I assume) is that any individual adult human can marry any other individual adult human of the opposite sex. The problem with saying that is equal in regards to homosexuals is that they do not love members of the opposite sex, and sham marriages are illegal (sham marriage = marriage for a reason other than love). Which makes it illegal to marry someone they love, and illegal to marry someone of the opposite sex.

Do you understand?

Edited, Aug 12th 2010 3:30pm by Belkira

Huh. Welcome to how I feel while discussing things with you.

You're still wrong but you should have caught me a month or two ago when I cared enough to go round in the circles about it.

That's the thing though, that's more of an opinion and I would think homosexual couples would greatly disagree.