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#27 Jul 01 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
I suppose its easy to say that extending benefits doesn't solve any problems, but the millions of people who need the money to pay rent and provide food for themselves and their families probably see it differently. Putting aside for the moment your total lack of empathy in insisting that millions of people need to "feel the pain and move past it" in order to solve the economic problems plaguing our nation after we've spent billions bailing out mega-corporations, I think we should address the fact that your position just doesn't make much sense. Its obviously not a long term fix for the economy, but it is a necessary part of preventing further deterioration in the interim, and it hardly prevents them from pursuing other tactics to help the economic recovery. It's not as though the money that these people are receiving is being horded somewhere, its put right back out into the economy as fast as it comes in. As opposed to if they stop receiving benefits, when not only are they out of basic necessities, which you seem to be taking for granted yourself, but a landlord is out a renter and stores are out a customer. And you're a fool if you don't think crime rates will go up as a result of the increased poverty and homelessness.

As to the politics of the whole thing I think republicans might be surprised at the electorate, especially if they continue with hard-line obstructionism of necessary and broadly accepted legislation.
#28 Jul 01 2010 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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gbaji wrote:
Sometimes the best solution to an economic problem is to feel the pain, move past it, and move on.

No doubt when the foreclosure rates skyrocket even further, spending drops even further, unemployment rises even further and people are eating rats in the streets, people like Gbaji would be saying "Don't blame the Democrats... this is for the best."

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 6:24pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#29 Jul 01 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Excellent
gbaji wrote:
Sometimes the best solution to an economic problem is to feel the pain, move past it, and move on.


Here's hoping you get laid off.
#30 Jul 01 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
Gurue
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knoxxsouthy wrote:


I'll use you how please thank you very much.


What does this even mean???
#31 Jul 01 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
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MDenham wrote:
The best solution to this economic problem is open revolution.
#32 Jul 01 2010 at 7:58 PM Rating: Excellent
GBATE!! Never saw it coming
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BrownDuck wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Sometimes the best solution to an economic problem is to feel the pain, move past it, and move on.


Here's hoping you get laid off, lose your house, lose your health insurance and develop a painful, chronic disease.


What BD said should have said.
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remorajunbao wrote:
One day I'm going to fly to Canada and open the curtains in your office.

#33 Jul 02 2010 at 2:40 AM Rating: Good
I can't help but wonder how many of you even comprehend what inflation will mean to this country's economy when we start printing the money necessary to cover the debt that all of these programs will create for us.

It's easy to say "we're hurting give us money", but it's also easy for my 6 year old to say "I want to watch cartoons, not do homework." My job as a parent, and Congress's job as our elected leaders, is to do what is best even if it is not what's popular. That is what leadership is. The vision to see the long term ramifications and make the better decision for the greater good.
#34 Jul 02 2010 at 2:43 AM Rating: Good
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
I can't help but wonder how many of you even comprehend what inflation will mean to this country's economy when we start printing the money necessary to cover the debt that all of these programs will create for us.

It's easy to say "we're hurting give us money", but it's also easy for my 6 year old to say "I want to watch cartoons, not do homework." My job as a parent, and Congress's job as our elected leaders, is to do what is best even if it is not what's popular. That is what leadership is. The vision to see the long term ramifications and make the better decision for the greater good.


How democratic.
#35 Jul 02 2010 at 2:52 AM Rating: Decent
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
I can't help but wonder how many of you even comprehend what inflation will mean to this country's economy when we start printing the money necessary to cover the debt that all of these programs will create for us.

It's easy to say "we're hurting give us money", but it's also easy for my 6 year old to say "I want to watch cartoons, not do homework." My job as a parent, and Congress's job as our elected leaders, is to do what is best even if it is not what's popular. That is what leadership is. The vision to see the long term ramifications and make the better decision for the greater good.


How democratic.

Democracy is the surest way to bankruptcy. Allowing people receiving government benefits to vote for more government benefits only ensures a diminishing base of payers and an increase in pain felt by people who made it happen.
#36 Jul 02 2010 at 3:03 AM Rating: Good
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
I can't help but wonder how many of you even comprehend what inflation will mean to this country's economy when we start printing the money necessary to cover the debt that all of these programs will create for us.

It's easy to say "we're hurting give us money", but it's also easy for my 6 year old to say "I want to watch cartoons, not do homework." My job as a parent, and Congress's job as our elected leaders, is to do what is best even if it is not what's popular. That is what leadership is. The vision to see the long term ramifications and make the better decision for the greater good.


How democratic.

Democracy is the surest way to bankruptcy.


I can see you love freedom.

You're a patriot and no mistake.
#37 Jul 02 2010 at 9:40 AM Rating: Decent
Begar,

Quote:
I suppose its easy to say that extending benefits doesn't solve any problems, but the millions of people who need the money to pay rent and provide food for themselves and their families probably see it differently.


Probably because they're getting other taxpayers money to keep sitting on their as*.


Quote:
Putting aside for the moment your total lack of empathy


Why is it liberals think that because times are hard they must use the govn to steal from their neighbor? You're right though it's hard to empathize with thiefs.


Quote:
after we've spent billions bailing out mega-corporations, I think we should address the fact that your position just doesn't make much sense.


Not "we" Democrats d*mbas*. The democrats and Obama have pushed through stimulus after stimulus after stimulus. Stealing money to provide for those who refuse to work is no kind of economic solution.


Quote:
Its obviously not a long term fix for the economy, but it is a necessary part of preventing further deterioration in the interim, and it hardly prevents them from pursuing other tactics to help the economic recovery. It's not as though the money that these people are receiving is being horded somewhere, its put right back out into the economy as fast as it comes in.


God you're a f*cking idiot. You are definitly the produce of public education.

Quote:
As opposed to if they stop receiving benefits


OMFG they might actually have to get a d*mn job if they want to eat. Imagine that!

Quote:
And you're a fool if you don't think crime rates will go up as a result of the increased poverty and homelessness.


And you're a fool if you don't think putting money back into the hands of the employers who earn it won't stimulate job growth. Let me tell if my taxes weren't so high I'd have hired 2 employees this year instead of one.


Quote:
As to the politics of the whole thing I think republicans might be surprised at the electorate, especially if they continue with hard-line obstructionism of necessary and broadly accepted legislation.


And this is what the liberal media is selling braind dead tw*ts like yourself. They know in a tough economy the party in power is always the one in danger of getting kicked out.

Can't you just admit the govn takeover of the banking, auto, and healthcare industries are the reason the economy is in the state it's in?
#38 Jul 02 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
God you're a f*cking idiot. You are definitly the produce of public education.

Yeah, um. You probably should have studied up yourself, since your basketball career went nowhere...or are you really implying that he is a head of socialist lettuce?
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#39 Jul 02 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
Debo,

What do you think about this statement;

Quote:
Its obviously not a long term fix for the economy, but it is a necessary part of preventing further deterioration in the interim, and it hardly prevents them from pursuing other tactics to help the economic recovery. It's not as though the money that these people are receiving is being horded somewhere, its put right back out into the economy as fast as it comes in


Sad that you're comparing a typo to this.

Smiley: oyvey
#40 Jul 02 2010 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
Debo,

What do you think about this statement;

Quote:
Its obviously not a long term fix for the economy, but it is a necessary part of preventing further deterioration in the interim, and it hardly prevents them from pursuing other tactics to help the economic recovery. It's not as though the money that these people are receiving is being horded somewhere, its put right back out into the economy as fast as it comes in


Sad that you're comparing a typo to this.

Smiley: oyvey

Are you saying that you disagree with stimulus packages? How about corporate bailouts?

Boy, it's a good thing Bush didn't use taxpayer money to help recover the economy.
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#41 Jul 02 2010 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
The 2008 TARP program had fairly broad support from both congressional democrats and republicans, so it's not as though they've had nothing to do with stimulus spending.

Most of the comments were from people who had been trying to get jobs for some time, it's not like they have been sitting on their asses waiting for the government checks to come rolling in.

Also even if it was just a typo, you should try extra hard when calling someone an idiot not to look like one yourself. I'm sure that's no easy feat for you, but just try.
#42 Jul 02 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
Debo,

Way to avoid the question. Should I ask it again?
#43 Jul 02 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
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20,643 posts
knoxxsouthy wrote:
Debo,

Way to avoid the question. Should I ask it again?

Question? I see no question marks.

But, if you want, then I will state that yes, spending money to keep the economy from tanking and avoid a complete 1930s style Great Depression makes more sense than your typing.
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#44 Jul 02 2010 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
Gurue
*****
16,299 posts
knoxxsouthy wrote:
thiefs.


/giggle


Quote:
Quote:
after we've spent billions bailing out mega-corporations, I think we should address the fact that your position just doesn't make much sense.


Not "we" Democrats d*mbas*. The democrats and Obama have pushed through stimulus after stimulus after stimulus. Stealing money to provide for those who refuse to work is no kind of economic solution.


So the mega-corporations don't work and just sit on their ***?

Quote:
Quote:
As opposed to if they stop receiving benefits


OMFG they might actually have to get a d*mn job if they want to eat. Imagine that!


I thought you were ******** about the unemployment rate? But that's only when it suits your arguments, right? Otherwise, there are plenty of jobs for everyone, and if someone is unemployed it's because they want to be, right?
#45 Jul 02 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
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68 posts
I'm 24 years old. Have been working at a machine shop directly for the Big 3, Toyota, and Honda for 80 hours a week, paying for my own home, car and schooling to get by. Up until about 7 months ago, and guess what... poof laid off, all of us. I have relied entirely on unemployment since then. Every single day when I wake up, I apply to at least 3 or 4 jobs, and get jack nodda. What REALLY sucked was the fact that McDonalds or all the other lower scale jobs do not pay more than I make for unemployment.. So I never saw the reasoning in stopping my unemp to take a job for less money... as I think most people would feel the same. A few days ago, my unemployment stopped, and I am now scurrying to even find a craptastic job to pay my rent, as I have already had to drop my few classes this semester to pay my car insurance and utilities. I don't necessarily have a point in this, just stating that...well it sucks that it was cut off, and there is not a thing I can do about it.

TL;DR to be expected..
#46 Jul 02 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Default
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Agamemnos wrote:
What REALLY sucked was the fact that McDonalds or all the other lower scale jobs do not pay more than I make for unemployment.. So I never saw the reasoning in stopping my unemp to take a job for less money...


I was going to write this very point, but you have done it for me. That's why eternally extending unemployment is a bad thing. In a downturn economy, not everyone can expect to obtain the same job or even one earning more than the unemployment benefits based on their previous salary will pay out. However, it is important for economic recovery that people do take those jobs. If they do, they'll "suffer" with lower income for a while, but the businesses will start to see recover and loosen their pocketbooks somewhat and higher paying jobs will then come back.

If everyone sits there collecting unemployment waiting for the jobs to come back, it'll take a hell of a lot longer for them to do so. A friend of mine's wife recently started working again after almost 15 years off work (raising their daughter as a stay at home mom). She can't drive due to medical issues and let's just say that the public transportation sucks where they live, so she literally has one strip mall within walking distance as the only option of places to find a job. She managed to get a job at a Starbucks in that mall. It doesn't pay a ton, but they do provide benefits and it'll help them out financially (they're in risk of losing their home right now as well). In just the month or so she's been there, three people have left the shop she works for, and they're having a hell of a time finding people to fill the jobs. They've got a manager who's doing double duty at another shop, and are having to try to get employees from two other shops to do shifts to fill the gap.

I can't help but wonder how many people could work those jobs but aren't because they're going to wait until their unemployment checks run out before looking for something "beneath them". Meanwhile small businesses can't find people to work for them (yes, I'm aware that Starbucks isn't a small business, but the shops each follow a similar model). This is what I meant by feeling a little pain. You work a job, any job until something better opens up. The idea that we should all just sit around waiting for other people to make the economy recover and just collect checks for sitting around is stupid and counterproductive IMO.


Those are the sorts of attitudes which will make our current economic problems worse over time, not better. If you want to recover, you have to move forwards. Sometimes, it's not pleasant, but that's the way life works. And for the record, if I were to lose my job tomorrow, I have saved enough money that I could certainly sit on unemployment for the standard time period without problem (which I've more than paid into btw), and assuming I couldn't find a comparable salaried job in that time, I would take whatever I could find and do just fine. I live frugally now and save as much money as possible for a rainy day. Because of that, I'm not afraid if that rainy day comes. If more people thought of their financial future as their responsibility rather than assuming that the government will take care of them, more people would be prepared for such things and could weather them. Sadly, we live in a society in which the entitlement mentality has taken hold and many people don't think in terms of personal responsibility.
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More words please
#47 Jul 02 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I hate to reply to your excellent post, with such a small one.

Problem is, a couple months back, I even applied to those "lower" jobs, and guess what... Even they are at hiring capacity... Quite a terrible situation over here. Damn Mi
#48 Jul 02 2010 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
Every time Gbaji opens his mouth a dictionary falls out, I wouldn't bother trying to keep up. :P

There are far fewer jobs on the market than people at the moment, so simply expecting folks to look for a low paying menial job outside their field isn't going to be much use. We had a job fair here a couple months ago and there were thousands that showed up for what was about 250 jobs. It seems to me, though I could be wrong, that a low paying job isn't likely to spur on the economy much anyway, given that that individual would have a more limited spending power, and would thus be contributing less to the economy anyway. Which is not to say that people shouldn't be going for such positions, just that that hardly seems like a more permanent cure than continuing unemployment benefits.

Hope things work out for you Ag.
#49 Jul 02 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
Belgaer the Eccentric wrote:
It seems to me, though I could be wrong, that a low paying job isn't likely to spur on the economy much anyway, given that that individual would have a more limited spending power, and would thus be contributing less to the economy anyway.
Well, let's try this as an actual question (directed at other people, not you):

Is it better for the economy, all other things being constant, to have 30 people working 10 hours a week or 10 people working 30 hours a week and the other 20 not working at all?

Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 3:23pm by MDenham
#50 Jul 02 2010 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
It's the first Friday of the month, that means it's empsit day!

Loss of 225k government jobs but a gain of 83k private sector jobs, and unemployment went down to 9.5%. On your marks... get set... polish that ****!



Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 5:33pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#51 Jul 02 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
Unemployment went down because over 600000 people "left the workforce". Change we can all believe in.
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