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#27 Jun 30 2010 at 7:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Majivo,

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It's not as though she has the option of getting up to the SCOTUS and choosing not to defend the current law, after all.


That's exactly what liberal activist judges do and you're delusional if you think she wouldn't.

Case in point Roe v Wade. Before that abortion was illegal, which means against the law. The activist judges simply determined that wasn't a good law and made a new one.

Kagan will vote not based on law or precedence but based on her personal ideology, just like Vader.

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#28 Jun 30 2010 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Ash,

I have a problem with the law regulating free speech (as long as that speech doesn't infringe on the rights of another i.e. yelling fired in a crowded theatre), apparently you don't.



Edited, Jun 30th 2010 9:49am by knoxxsouthy
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#29 Jun 30 2010 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
Ash,

I have a problem with the law regulating free speech, apparently you don't.

Answer the question.
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#30 Jun 30 2010 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Ash,

I did. Just because you didn't like the answer don't come crying to me.

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#31 Jun 30 2010 at 7:51 AM Rating: Good
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
Ash,

I did. Just because you didn't like the answer don't come crying to me.

So you think the FCC shouldn't restrict people's free speech on the television?
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#32 Jun 30 2010 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Ash,

No I don't. If a person doesn't want to watch, or have their children watch, something on TV kill the tv. Pretty simple if you ask me.

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#33 Jun 30 2010 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
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It's not as though she has the option of getting up to the SCOTUS and choosing not to defend the current law, after all.
That's exactly what liberal activist judges do and you're delusional if you think she wouldn't.

Ignoring your remark about scary "liberal activist judges!", he was referring to her role as an attorney defending the law.
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#34 Jun 30 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
Ash,

No I don't. If a person doesn't want to watch, or have their children watch, something on TV kill the tv. Pretty simple if you ask me.

I agree with varus here, let the free market decide on the extent of tawdriness it wants to deal with.
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#35 Jun 30 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Lubes,

Ageeing with me is a slippery slope.

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#36 Jun 30 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
knoxxsouthy wrote:
Quote:
It's not as though she has the option of getting up to the SCOTUS and choosing not to defend the current law, after all.
That's exactly what liberal activist judges do and you're delusional if you think she wouldn't.

Ignoring your remark about scary "liberal activist judges!", he was referring to her role as an attorney defending the law.


Um... But she is almost certainly going to be made a justice on the Supreme Court and will have the option of not defending the current law. The fact that she didn't then is kinda irrelevant. Assuming we are at all concerned with whether or not a potential justice will rule based on what the law says (Constitution in this case) or based on what they think the law should say it is kinda relevant.

Let me be clear that I don't think at all that her comments in that case reflect a desire for book banning. I'm making a broader point about judicial activism. It's somewhat irrelevant given the positions of the justice she'll be replacing (Steven's dissent on the Chicago Gun control law is essentially that he doesn't like the 2nd amendment so he doesn't think we should follow it), but in the larger context I do think it's absurd that we have *any* Supreme Court justices who think that way. Their job is to rule based on what the Constitution says, yet increasingly a number of them routinely ignore that and instead search for lower court rulings and only tangentially related SCotUS cases to create precedent for finding in a manner that is in some cases exactly in opposition to what the constitution clearly says. If we want attorneys who think that way, that's fine. If we want politicians who think that way, that's fine (dumb, but fine). If we want legislators who think that way, still fine. But the entire job of a Supreme Court justice is to tell those people they are wrong. Stocking the court full of justices who think the same way effectively destroys the institution.
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#37 Jun 30 2010 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
Mdenham,

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As far as banning books, last time I checked, most of what's considered "classic literature" has been banned at one point or another by school districts whose constituencies are primarily made up of conservatives


Prove it, liar.
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Books Banned at One Time or Another in the United States

A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle
Annie on My Mind by Nancy Garden
As I Lay Dying by William Faulkner
Blubber by Judy Blume
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
Canterbury Tales by Chaucer
Carrie by Stephen King
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Christine by Stephen King
Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Cujo by Stephen King
Curses, Hexes, and Spells by Daniel Cohen
Daddy's Roommate by Michael Willhoite
Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Peck
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller
Decameron by Boccaccio
East of Eden by John Steinbeck
Fallen Angels by Walter Myers
Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland
Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Forever by Judy Blume
Grendel by John Champlin Gardner
Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Prizoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling
Have to Go by Robert Munsch
Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
Impressions edited by Jack Booth
In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
It's Okay if You Don't Love Me by Norma Klein
James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Little Red Riding Hood by Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm
Lord of the Flies by William Golding
Love is One of the Choices by Norma Klein
Lysistrata by Aristophanes
More Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
My Brother Sam Is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
My House by Nikki Giovanni
My Friend Flicka by Mary O'Hara
Night Chills by Dean Koontz
Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
One Day in The Life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Ordinary People by Judith Guest
Our Bodies, Ourselves by Boston Women's Health Collective
Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy
Revolting Rhymes by Roald Dahl
Scary Stories 3: More Tales to Chill Your Bones by Alvin Schwartz
Scary Stories in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
Separate Peace by John Knowles
Silas Marner by George Eliot
Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Tarzan of the Apes by Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
The ******* by John Jakes
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
The Color Purple by Alice Walker
The Devil's Alternative by Frederick Forsyth
The Figure in the Shadows by John Bellairs
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Snyder
The Learning Tree by Gordon Parks
The Living Bible by William C. Bower
The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
The New Teenage Body Book by Kathy McCoy and Charles Wibbelsman
The Pigman by Paul Zindel
The Seduction of Peter S. by Lawrence Sanders
The Shining by Stephen King
The Witches by Roald Dahl
The Witches of Worm by Zilpha Snyder
Then Again, Maybe I Won't by Judy Blume
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee
Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare
Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary by the Merriam-Webster Editorial Staff
Witches, Pumpkins, and Grinning Ghosts: The Story of the Halloween Symbols by Edna Barth
I'm not sure how old the list is.
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#38 Jun 30 2010 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
Mdenham,

Quote:
As far as banning books, last time I checked, most of what's considered "classic literature" has been banned at one point or another by school districts whose constituencies are primarily made up of conservatives


Prove it, liar.
Sure. You pick the school district, I'll look up what books they've banned. That way we don't get into a "but they're not really conservatives!" argument.

Also, you seem to be convinced that I'm saying that liberals don't ban books. They do - it's just generally things along the lines of politically-related books instead (keep in mind who determines what's considered "classic literature" hint: it's the liberals).
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#39 Jun 30 2010 at 7:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Um... But she is almost certainly going to be made a justice on the Supreme Court and will have the option of not defending the current law. The fact that she didn't then is kinda irrelevant. Assuming we are at all concerned with whether or not a potential justice will rule based on what the law says (Constitution in this case) or based on what they think the law should say it is kinda relevant.

Huh? The quote in the OP is one drawn from her closing arguments in a Supreme Court case in which her job was to defend the administration's position. I haven't seen any recent remarks from her regarding it, much less remarks from her current hearings. I'm not saying she would or wouldn't argue the same way if asked to do so today but we can't make that assumption from the posted clip.
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#40 Jun 30 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Default
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bsphil, I'm not sure how many of those can correctly be considered "classic literature". I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most of those were banned not for some political reason but because they were just considered inappropriate or too adult for the age range of a given school.

You also failed to show that it was mostly conservatives who were responsible, which was kind of the whole point. No one is debating whether or not books have been banned in schools in the US. The question is who did most of the banning and why were those books banned? Um... It also kinda matters who was pushing the issue. If a vast majority of the parents in a school district don't like a given book, is it wrong for the school to override them and put it on the library anyway? I guess what I'm getting at is whether it's any more or less "wrong" for a school to deny kids an opportunity to read a book that they don't want them to read, or to provide a book which their parents don't want them to read?

Remember, for the most part, when we're talking about these "bans", we're not talking about laws making it illegal for a private citizen to own or buy those books, but whether or not the school library stocks it. That's not precisely the same thing.
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#41 Jun 30 2010 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Remember, for the most part, when we're talking about these "bans", we're not talking about laws making it illegal for a private citizen to own or buy those books, but whether or not the school library stocks it. That's not precisely the same thing.
Pretty sure MD explicitly said "school districts".

As for the original point of who is banning what, I don't really care. This entire book banning scare is a 100% fabricated issue, and it just so happens to be fabricated by conservatives, which doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
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#42 Jun 30 2010 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I guess what I'm getting at is whether it's any more or less "wrong" for a school to deny kids an opportunity to read a book that they don't want them to read, or to provide a book which their parents don't want them to read?
Hm.

Nope, not a hard question at all.

It's more wrong for the school to deny that opportunity, because that's the state infringing upon the parents' right to make the decision as to whether or not the child is mature enough (etc. etc.) to read that book.

The school can provide the opportunity all it wants without infringing upon the parents' rights to decide that the kid can't read it. (Mandating that the kid read the book is a different kettle of boots, and wouldn't fly anyway. Hence the habit of school districts, when the curriculum includes a book that may be controversial, requiring parental involvement in the decision as to whether or not they want their impressionable loinfruits exposed to such a book.)
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#43 Jul 01 2010 at 7:30 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil,

So "daddys roomate" and the harry potters are considered classics.

Smiley: laugh
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#44 Jul 01 2010 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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No, they were just considered dangerous or satanic by Christian Fundies on the school board.

I'm glad my parents didn't censor my reading when I was a child. Sure, that meant I got into romance novels when I was 13, but it also meant that my childhood was filled with great science fiction.
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#45 Jul 01 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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What's with liberals always pushing fat nasty b*tches into positions of power?

God I miss Condoleeza.


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#46 Jul 01 2010 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Cat,

My parents were just glad I was reading. Especially considering I loved being outside doing athletic things like baseball, basketball, soccer, football. I still remember reading cs lewis and hitchhikers guide series when I was in middle school. Of course most of my teachers really got upset when I would read while they were babbling on about God knows what.


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#47 Jul 01 2010 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
What's with liberals always pushing fat nasty b*tches into positions of power?

God I miss Condoleeza.




What's with conservatives being sexist assholes?
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#48 Jul 01 2010 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
knoxxsouthy wrote:
What's with liberals always pushing fat nasty b*tches into positions of power?

God I miss Condoleeza.




What's with conservatives being sexist assholes?

I'm going with a healthy respect for the natural order of things. We put fit women on covers and make mingers write stories with no pictures.
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#49 Jul 01 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
Cat,

My parents were just glad I was reading. Especially considering I loved being outside doing athletic things like baseball, basketball, soccer, football. I still remember reading cs lewis and hitchhikers guide series when I was in middle school. Of course most of my teachers really got upset when I would read while they were babbling on about God knows what.

Ironically, my class had to read Stephen King books in high school, which led directly to a psychotic episode.
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#50 Jul 01 2010 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
knoxxsouthy wrote:
Cat,

My parents were just glad I was reading. Especially considering I loved being outside doing athletic things like baseball, basketball, soccer, football. I still remember reading cs lewis and hitchhikers guide series when I was in middle school. Of course most of my teachers really got upset when I would read while they were babbling on about God knows what.

Ironically, my class had to read Stephen King books in high school, which led directly to a psychotic episode.
Somehow I doubt that, considering that I've read Stephen King since I was... um, 9?
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#51 Jul 01 2010 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I believe it. Stephen King is actually a pretty bad writer to me, but that's just a personal distaste for his writing style. (I feel the same way about Kevin J. Anderson.) I find horror boring.

But if you are unprepared emotionally for one of those horror stories, it can probably really do a number on your mind.

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