Hmmm how strange!!!Follow

So our government wants illegal aliens to go on welfare...? That's an interesting conspiracy theory there.

gbaji, as someone who has had to apply for and provide the Dept of social services with proper documentation to receive benefits, I have to call you on this one.



You can't just make up a Social Security number when you apply and get emergency benefits for more then 30 days while they attempt to track down why a SS number doesn't match the name given. You either have to have a valid SS card when you apply or a letter from the Soc, Sec. Office saying you have applied for a replacement card after showing them valid forms such as one's birth Cert. or other proof that you are a legal citizen and photo id from the state, that you are the person you claim to be. This isn't a local or state requirement but Federal Law. You also have to have these forms for the DSS office before they give you emergency aid.

I happen to have had to replace not just my SS card when it was stolen, but get cards for my daughters who were born out of state and needed to get new copies of their Birth certificates from CA. I had 2 business weeks to get all the proper paper work in and sign forms that stated that I knew that I would face federal charges if I provided any false information while applying for benefits.

I gone without food stamps though I knew I could get them, just because I hate having to dig up all the documents needed and sit for hours in hard chairs for a few dollars worth of food each month.

Tulip,



Democrats sure as h*ll do. A whole new voting block completely dependent on govn who will vote how the Dems tell them; are you kidding?




Elne,

So what you're saying is when you go get your govn cheese you don't see any illegals?

Now now, we all know by now that other people's life experiences are "anecdotal evidence" to Gbaji, while something he heard from a guy once is "fact".

I have a feeling that was implied.

Funny, and Xsarus was insisting that there were no immigration reforms focused on the companies who hire illegals. So there's a $200,000 fine for the company, but what happens to the employee? Anything?


Yes. You got me! You do have to come up with some false paperwork in order to get a job "over the table" in the US. Of course, the burden is entirely on the employer, which was what I wanted someone to show, but didn't want to spend the time researching the exact form name. Thanks for taking the bait! :)




Yeah. So I have to fake a school ID and borrow any of a half dozen easily obtained documents and then get them to pass some guy who has no skill to determine if they aren't valid, no ability to double check them (the employer doesn't actually file the form, but just keeps it for records), and no vested interest in denying the employee from working. I'm sure that's going to work just peachy! You get that the employer just has to have the form on file. There's no way for any agency to actually verify that the forms of ID written down were valid or that the employer could have known that they weren't. It's a meaningless form.



A drivers license and a birth certificate will work (and it's pretty trivially easy to get someone else's birth certificate. Or you borrow any of a half dozen other documents that someone else managed to obtain. Or you get someone to falsify said documents (and most employers wont know the difference).

The problem with that law is that the "listB, and ListC" documents aren't tracked and are relatively easy to fake. There's also no copies of the documents made, nor is the form itself filed with any agency which might be able to track that the same false ID is being used by several thousand people at the same time.


The gaping hole in our system is that we don't file this information to a common agency which then checks for duplicate names and numbers in order to detect illegal employment. Not only do we not do that, but the one agency which *does* have sufficient information to track that (the IRS) is expressly forbidden to notify immigration services if they find discrepancies. We have multiple methods of documentation used by dozens of different parts of the government, no single one of which is sufficient nor required to establish the legality of a potential employee.

Wouldn't it be easier if we had one card which authorized legal status and put reasonable restrictions and checks on obtaining that document? That way, instead of an employment form saying that you have to have one of listA (which are hard to fake government documents) *or* one each from listB and listC (which are ridiculously easy to fake), we'd just require that one card be provided, and verify that ID against other government documents to ensure that the person using it is the person it was issued to.


If we really want to make sure we're preventing people from working here illegally that is. That we don't do this or anything remotely like it is a pretty good indicator that there are factions in the public sector who just don't want this. And while I'm sure there are a few nutty "number of the beast!" type oppositions, most of them are pro-illegal-immigration and like that the status quo allows them to ensure that the numbers of illegals continues to grow so that the issue itself becomes a bigger one that they can use to their political advantage.

Edited, Jun 25th 2010 4:44pm by gbaji

Edited, Jun 25th 2010 4:46pm by gbaji

Right

Look guys, we can all sit here and argue back and forth about how impossible it is for an illegal to obtain employment and/or welfare benefits, but the proof is kinda in the fact that large numbers of them clearly *do* obtain employment and manage to obtain welfare benefits (and medical care).

Is anyone actually trying to deny this?

No, you can sit here all day and argue about that, while the rest of us shake our heads, knowing that you've purposely missed the point being made.

Make shit up to pretend that they're speaking with some authority and then throw a hissy fit when they're called on it?

Yup. That's what you do all right.


Was this your defense for making shit up? It wasn't a very good one but I suppose there really isn't a good defense for making shit up rather than admit your ignorance.

Still, you could have tried harder than that.

Edited, Jun 25th 2010 9:16pm by Jophiel

****.

****.