Hmmm how strange!!!Follow

If they're paying the average locally, or likely slightly above it if they are using a cost of living metric, how on earth would that lower the average local income?

Oh, I thought you were talking about depressing the market local to where they were hiring people. So, you're saying it's immoral to work in other countries. It's probably immoral to buy just about everything that's made in china then. Maybe elaborate on that statement.

Ugly,

I stand corrected. If you truly own a business that employs 1500 kudos.


Oh and my father retired 3 years ago. Now all he does is play on the farm (if you can call 15acres a farm)

Don't feel like jumping into the "Who's the better small business owner" match, but this is of interest:



I think you (and most people) have a grossly over exaggerated idea of what constitutes "false papers". There are massive gaps in our employment system in this country, some of which are clearly left open specifically to make it easier for illegal workers. All one has to do is make up a social security number when filing for employment. That's it. No "papers" are needed. The employer files that number and fills out the correct forms, but typically no one checks those numbers against the name given. Thus, there's no way to determine if the person working there is actually the person who's SS number he gave.

It should be obvious to the IRS that a SS number is being used illegally, but the IRS isn't allowed legally to do anything about it. As long as the taxes are collected, they don't care. This is how people work here illegally (assuming they're not just doing under the table work, which of course requires no paper work at all).

The same sort of "right hand doesn't tell the left hand what's going on" process applies to welfare systems. You apply for aid and don't have a valid SS number. No problem! They'll give you emergency aid while they "sort out" the problem. This can go on for months as they attempt to track down why the number you gave them doesn't match the name in the system. It's *easier* for an undocumented person to game the system essentially forever since they're never giving any real information about themselves during the process. When they're finally denied, they just move on to another office in the same county, give a different name and address and repeat the process.

And that's not counting the community organizations dedicated to helping people obtain government aid. While I'm sure some if not most of them are honest players, clearly some of them do essentially act to help people game the system by giving them advice on how to fill the forms, how to apply for emergency aid, and how to avoid getting caught. The big deal for me with the ACORN videos wasn't about prostitution and whatnot (although that's what gets the press attention), it's that if those workers are willing to do that for someone admitting to trying to commit a crime there's no question what would happen if some random illegal walked in looking for help.

The system is horribly broken and not just with regard to illegal immigration. But one of the major reasons we don't fix the system is precisely because if we do then it'll make it harder on illegals, and certain political factions don't want that to happen. It's pretty darn stupid really...

I don't think you're listening very hard, or you're listening only to some of the people who are talking. You are correct that one of the problems with immigration reform is that the two largest "sides" each want to punish the other guy without doing so evenly or fairly. Some on the left want to create huge penalties for employers who hire illegals with all the burden on those companies to prove they're not violating the law, but without punishing the illegal worker at all (ie: government steps in and fines the company, but the illegal either continues to work there or just moves on to another job without being deported). Some on the right want to just turn it into a deportation issue while ignoring the companies that hire them. Obviously, both are being unreasonable, but when those two groups represent the majority of influence in the issue, it's hard for more rational voices to prevail.



There have been numerous attempts to get some form of SS card with biometrics or even just a name and a photograph. They've been pretty strongly shot down, usually with accusations of racism and that those pushing for it are anti-immigrant. You seriously haven't heard this before? Cause I'd think that anyone not under a rock should have been aware of at least one try at this at some point...



/shrug

Pay more attention. Those things usually are in any sort of proposed immigration reform (from either/both parties), but it usually gets drowned out in a sea of attacks on any attempt at reform being racist and anti-immigrant and that's about all joe public hears. Immigration reform is probably the most unfairly vilified public policy in existence. And with what should be paper-thin and easily seen through counter arguments, which unfortunately succeed anyway.



Yes. But do you see how a state, which does not have the authority to do things like issue biometric SS cards, might just do this precisely to try to force the federal government to do something is should have done 50 years ago? The state government kinda doesn't have a choice here. Only the federal government can make the kind of changes actually needed to address the immigration issues, but it has failed to do so. So the state(s) do what they can.

And now you have your answer? Our system is rigged in order to make it nearly impossible to prevent someone with no documentation from taking huge advantage of it. It's why the need to ensure some form of documentation is such a big deal. It is not about racism, or anti-immigration. It's about needing some sort of sane process for managing this. Without it, things are getting out of hand. I don't recall which thread I posted this in (surely one of the ones specific to Arizona), but I linked to an article talking about something like 1/3rd of all welfare payouts in Los Angeles going to illegal immigrants. That's an absurd amount of money being sucked away. It's why people who live in border states tend to have a different view of this than people who don't. The federal government sets up all these systems, but takes no account for their use by illegals. Thus, the states end out footing the difference. That difference is massive.

1) You never mentioned a badge.

2) Most INS officers wear a uniform. The detective wing of INS is fairly small.

I own 6% of a small business. It sells navigation and search software. Given the extremely clever darwinian learning programme at the heart of the software, it saves companies who buy it literally hundreds of thousands of dollars per project. It correctly "cheats" its way through mathmatical processes that otherwise would take millions of years to run down to an average of about 6-10 hours.

Since it saves users so much money, and was such a bitch to programme in the first place, the programme sells successfully at about $15k a pop. The start-up team was small and variable, the resulting team is slightly larger and very well paid. It consists mainly of programmers that the initial programmers knew personally from past jobs, and poached or seized on when they were out of work. Accountant and lawyer seen on a contractual basis.

The major private shareholder is an engineer who invented the idea and sunk $400k of his and his family's money into it before seeing any return whatsoever. The minority shareholders are people who agreed to start working for shares instead of cash when the initial cash ran out.

Wait...you're dating Varus?

There was the guy who owned the karate studio (omg, i forgot his name already), but he got banned. Alla, too, got the boot. I'd agree. The forum doesn't have a small-business friendly climate.

I blame greedy corps, big banks and male chauvinists.

No, it wasn't Tacosid. It was the other guy with the karate studio. He was a Microsoft guy.

but it's awesome that people refer to him as the Microsoft guy.