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The BP Story So Far. . . Follow

#1 Jun 10 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mr BP: ZOMFG! Teh Oilz0rzz all spilly in teh sea! Oy! Transocean!You said you'd be careful with teh rig!
Mr TransoceanSozz Smiley: frown But we paid Mr Halliburton to cement in the head.
Mr Halliburton: Oops. Smiley: um
Mr Obama: Oy! BP. j00 must pay for dis!
Mr BP: OK. Will do
Mr Obama: If j00 don' pay, I is pwn joo! Smiley: mad
Mr BP: OK. We'll pay for everything. I already said that.
Mr Obama: Think of the American fishermen!
Mr BP: We have. We've promised to pay every last cent.
Mr Obama: If j00 don' pay, I is pwn joo! Smiley: motz
Mr BP: Erm. You mentioned that. Our subcontractors fUcked up, but we accept full responsibility and will pay for everything.
Mr Obama: Damn limeys!
Mr BP: Ahem, while reminding you that we take full responsibility and will pay up, Transocean who were operating the rig for us, is a US company.
Mr TransoceanAhem. We were American, but we shipped out to teh Cayman Islands in 1999 for tax purposes.
Mr BP: Ahem, while reminding you that we take full responsibility and will pay up, Halliburton were supposed to cap off the head just before it blew, and Halliburton is a US company.
Mr Halliburton: American? Us? Naw. We moved to Dubai a couple years back to avoid US taxes.
Mr BP: CrapShitfUck
Mr Obama: If j00 don' pay, I is pwn joo! Smiley: mad
Mr BP: Smiley: facepalm

I think that just about captures it. . .
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#2 Jun 10 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Meh, for it's it isn't so much that BP is a British company. If it had been Chevron and thus Venezuelan, omg now THEN we'd have rioting in the streets.

We're way more annoyed that BP kept lying about how much oil was spilling than we are about them not being American. Dammit, we expect better of EU countries.
#3gbaji, Posted: Jun 10 2010 at 2:00 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Am I alone in thinking that Obama is handling this, not like a president, but like a mid level political hack? I honestly don't think he understands that as president, it's not sufficient for him to just blame someone else for the problem...
#4 Jun 10 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
Dammit, we expect better of EU countries.
Naive much?
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#5 Jun 10 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Am I alone in thinking that Obama is handling this, not like a president, but like a mid level political hack? I honestly don't think he understands that as president, it's not sufficient for him to just blame someone else for the problem...
lol, I was waiting for this post Smiley: grin What do you think Obama should be doing?
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#6 Jun 10 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Am I alone in thinking that Obama is handling this, not like a president, but like a mid level political hack?

Nah, I'm sure ALL the GOP parrots feel the same as you do.
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#7 Jun 10 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
Anyone else not surprised Obama hasn't met with the ceo of bp?


You elect a community agitatotr and that's what you get someone who just b*tches about problems rather than assisting in fixing them.

BP had better not "lawyer up" or Obama will kick their as* even more. I also wonder if his precious little daughter is still asking him, every morning, if they have plugged the hole yet?
#8 Jun 10 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
Jophed,


And all the liberal whack jobs have convinced you that shutting down all oil operations in the US must be done right now or we're all going to be buried under a mountain of oil.
#9 Jun 10 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
And all the liberal whack jobs have convinced you that shutting down all oil operations in the US must be done right now or we're all going to be buried under a mountain of oil.

I never argued for that nor do I think it's true. But you and Gabi are doing a great job of carrying the usual GOP water around.
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#10 Jun 10 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
But you and Gabi are doing a great job of carrying the usual GOP water around.


Smiley: laugh
#11 Jun 10 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
Worried about your pension fund, Nobby?
#12 Jun 10 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
You elect a community agitator and that's what you get someone who just b*tches about problems rather than assisting in fixing them.


If Obama had a degree in engineering instead of law, this argument might hold some merit.
#13 Jun 10 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lord Nobby wrote:
Mr BP: Erm. You mentioned that. Our subcontractors fUcked up, but we accept full responsibility and will pay for everything.

Yeah, that's how it works. If BP wants to recover some of their losses, they can go after the subcontractors they signed up with. It's not as though they're being exceptionally noble in accepting the responsibility -- it is their responsibility.
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#14 Jun 10 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm still not 100% sure what people expect Obama to do, or why anyone is blaming this on him.
#15 Jun 10 2010 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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Yes varrus, we know you hate Obama. So what should he do?
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#16 Jun 10 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
What do you think Obama should be doing?


Only pure ideologues would expect Obama to have the oil spill completely cleaned up on his own by now, or complain that he isn't actually in a divesuit with a skimmer. However, he could be demonstrating more leadership in this situation.

If I were President, I'd have immediately taken a group of experts in the field and traveled to speak with the governors of each state with a coastline on the Gulf. I'd get scenarios and assessments on what the impact of the oil spill would be, and then brainstorm and propose solutions on how best to handle the spill once it reaches the coast, or minimizing the damage. These may be different for each state, and I'd come out of each meeting with a list of prioritized tasks, which groups (federal, state, local, or a combination) are responsible for each, and a timeline of achieving them. I'd also leave a liaison there as a direct point of contact for status updates, relaying problems, etc. I'd have done everything possible to streamline the prevention and clean-up activities, and I'd have some clearly defined goals and strategies that I could hold certain people or groups accountable to if there were failures. If I didn't hear from a state or my liaison there in a couple days, I'd be calling to check in as to why I hadn't heard anything. I'd have met directly with BP's CEO and demanded his list of strategies for stemming or stopping the oil flow and what their timetables are on that, in addition to demanding weekly status updates to have all the details.

Obama seems more interested in campaigning than leading; he alternates between giving soundbites to the press about how bad BP is and traveling down to the Gulf simply to get some photo ops with a concerned look as he listens to local fishermen. These actions are only the appearance of leadership. I think this is really what is frustrating a lot of people; reasonable people do not think he can possibly cap the leak himself or magically make the oil disappear.

If he did just something along what I outlined, showing he has charge over the portion he could possibly have some semblance of control and that he and his administration are fulling supporting the states affected, I (along with probably millions of Americans) would be satisfied and believe he is doing all he can at the moment to handle the crisis. I think these are perfectly reasonable expectations of the President.

Edited, Jun 10th 2010 4:00pm by CountFenris
#17 Jun 10 2010 at 3:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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CountFenris wrote:
I'd get scenarios and assessments on what the impact of the oil spill would be...

And you'd be told that it wasn't going to be all that bad. Just like the administration was told. For that matter, there wouldn't really be a whole hell of a lot you could do to "minimize the damage". The reason why the Coast Guard didn't jump all over Jindal's demands for sand berms is because they don't solve the problem, they just make it someone else's problem. Unless your master plan was to ring the entire coast with an unbroken line of berms, the oil just washes into the marshes in Mississippi or onto the coast in Florida or Texas. Which I suppose is great if you're in LA but less awesome if you're a hundred miles down the coast.

I think it's pretty funny that the GOP has glommed onto this "He didn't talk to the CEO!" line while decrying "photo ops". What do you think a face-to-face with the CEO would be? What do you think the CEO has the authority to do that isn't being done via those under him?

I will say that Obama's first mistake was to believe anything BP had to say about how bad the damage was. Unfortunately, I have no idea how well equipped the US government is to independently confirm the information.

Edited, Jun 10th 2010 4:07pm by Jophiel
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#18 Jun 10 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
CountFenris wrote:
If I were President, I'd have immediately taken a group of experts in the field and traveled to speak with the governors of each state with a coastline on the Gulf. I'd get scenarios and assessments on what the impact of the oil spill would be, and then brainstorm and propose solutions on how best to handle the spill once it reaches the coast, or minimizing the damage. These may be different for each state, and I'd come out of each meeting with a list of prioritized tasks, which groups (federal, state, local, or a combination) are responsible for each, and a timeline of achieving them. I'd also leave a liaison there as a direct point of contact for status updates, relaying problems, etc. I'd have done everything possible to streamline the prevention and clean-up activities, and I'd have some clearly defined goals and strategies that I could hold certain people or groups accountable to if there were failures. If I didn't hear from a state or my liaison there in a couple days, I'd be calling to check in as to why I hadn't heard anything.


See, these are the things someone from BP should be doing, IMHO. But that's just me.
#19 Jun 10 2010 at 3:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also, despite popular misconception, the president does actually have meetings 'n stuff in between "only" visiting fisherman and insulting BP.
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#20 Jun 10 2010 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I will say that Obama's first mistake was to believe anything BP had to say about how bad the damage was. Unfortunately, I have no idea how well equipped the US government is to independently confirm the information.

Not to apologize for Obama or anything, but I'd think that a deep-sea drilling company might be the best company to fix a deep-sea drilling accident/disaster.
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#21 Jun 10 2010 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not saying the repairs. I'm saying that the administration based its initial response off of BP's analysis of how bad the leak was. BP's analysis was, to put it politely, very flawed.
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#22 Jun 10 2010 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
And you'd be told that it wasn't going to be all that bad. Just like the administration was told.


I don't mean from BP; I'd use independent experts in this field to use their experience and knowledge determining what the possible scenarios were. Sure, BP would be involved, but they wouldn't be the only source.

Jophiel wrote:
Unless your master plan was to ring the entire coast with an unbroken line of berms, the oil just washes into the marshes in Mississippi or onto the coast in Florida or Texas. Which I suppose is great if you're in LA but less awesome if you're a hundred miles down the coast.


Obviously you can't just put up a wall immediately along the entire Gulf coast, but maybe you could have used barriers to divert the oil flow to certain areas. Maybe there are alternative, creative solutions that don't involve berms.

Jophiel wrote:
I think it's pretty funny that the GOP has glommed onto this "He didn't talk to the CEO!" line while decrying "photo ops". What do you think a face-to-face with the CEO would be? What do you think the CEO has the authority to do that isn't being done via those under him?


Good thing I am not a GOP member. You don't believe the President should ever have a conversation with Hayward? I just think as President he has the pull to go straight to the source and get any information from the head of the company. I just think of it as cutting across lines; the CEO might have a little more info and the entire picture than his underlings. It's not even for accountability sake, the press is already taking care of that. I'll tell you what, if when this hullabaloo about not talking to Hayward arose the Obama administration came out and showed that in fact he had been in contact with Hayward, just not publicly, I would have been impressed. Very impressed.

Jophiel wrote:
Also, despite popular misconception, the president does actually have meetings 'n stuff in between "only" visiting fisherman and insulting BP.


I have no doubt he does. And what have those meetings yielded?
#23 Jun 10 2010 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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CountFenris wrote:
I'd use independent experts in this field to use their experience and knowledge determining what the possible scenarios were.

But those were all based off BP's estimates. BP was the only real source for that information.

Quote:
maybe you could have used barriers to divert the oil flow to certain areas. Maybe there are alternative, creative solutions that don't involve berms.

Sure. Which people are you going to tell "Well, LA was kind of important so here's some free oil!"?

Jophiel wrote:
You don't believe the President should ever have a conversation with Hayward?

I don't believe it would have been useful as anything but a photo-op. I obviously wouldn't have been upset if he did but I don't think anything was lost in not doing so. I believe, because it'd be ridiculous to assume otherwise, that BP is doing everything in its power to stop the leak. I don't think that Obama calling Hayward would have made BP more interested in stopping the leak.

Quote:
I have no doubt he does. And what have those meetings yielded?

Well, you sure seemed to originally doubt that he did since you said he was just giving soundbites and talking to fishermen instead of leading. While the results before weren't great (a couple failed attempts to seal the well and attempts to minimize the oil damage via dispersants, booms and burns) your master plan is apparently "Get better ideas from everyone that solve the problem" and "Wash the oil up on someone else's beach". It's a pity you weren't in charge.

Edited, Jun 10th 2010 5:18pm by Jophiel
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#24 Jun 10 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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I kind of get the feeling that Nobby doesn't see BP as a grossly negligent company that hasn't continually racked up serious violations magnitudes greater than their competitors.
#25 Jun 10 2010 at 4:42 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
But those were all based off BP's estimates. BP was the only real source for that information.


The assessments I was referring to was during the hypothetical meetings with governors to see what would or could happen to their state and how best to minimize or deal with the damage. Other people than BP employees can do that.

Jophiel wrote:
Sure. Which people are you going to tell "Well, LA was kind of important so here's some free oil!"?


There may be other solutions than just diverting the oil. The possibility of perhaps controlling its flow and having smaller, more manageable areas to put in clean-up crews, etc. is just an example I threw out there.

Jophiel wrote:
I don't believe it would have been useful as anything but a photo-op. I obviously wouldn't have been upset if he did but I don't think anything was lost in not doing so. I believe, because it'd be ridiculous to assume otherwise, that BP is doing everything in its power to stop the leak. I don't think that Obama calling Hayward would have made BP more interested in stopping the leak.


I also believe BP is doing everything they can to try and stop the leak - why wouldn't they? I also stated that Obama's communication with Hayward would not be him berating the CEO, but rather collaborative in nature. What is the current status? What are the issues they are experiencing? What are the next steps? What can I, as President, do to assist you? And I was speaking in terms of a phone call, so no photo-op involved.

Jophiel wrote:
It's a pity you weren't in charge.


And I suppose you are, in proxy, since your solution is to throw your hands up and declare, "Nothing to do here! Hey all Gulf coast states, enjoy your free oil!"
#26 Jun 10 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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CountFenris wrote:
I also stated that Obama's communication with Hayward would not be him berating the CEO, but rather collaborative in nature. What is the current status? What are the issues they are experiencing? What are the next steps?

And you think Hayward would be better at answering this stuff than the actual technical guys the administration is speaking to?
Quote:
And I suppose you are, in proxy, since your solution...

No, I'm not claiming to have a solution and readily admit that I don't have even a slim fraction of the information I'd need to pretend to have one.

Edited, Jun 10th 2010 5:58pm by Jophiel
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