Stimulus failing miserablyFollow

Jophed,



By and large yes. Incidentally this is why they were voted out during the mid-term elections. We thought we were getting conservative and ended up with more big govn spending. Of course this has just led us down the road we're on now with record govn spending and no growth in the private sector.

Contrast that to Obama's approach to do everything he can to hinder and harm the parts of the economy (financial industry) most directly affected by the downturn.

"This Article shows that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts are regressive, unaffordable, and poorly designed to boost economic growth in either the short run or the long run."
- "THE STATE OF FEDERAL INCOME TAXATION SYMPOSIUM: RATES, PROGRESSIVITY, AND BUDGET PROCESSES: SYMPOSIUM ARTICLE: AN ECONOMIC ASSESSMENT OF TAX POLICY IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, 2001-2004", Boston College Law Review, Sept. 2004, Peter Orszag & William Gale

Now is when you start saying that they don't count because they're just nutters that everyone ignores.

Seriously, Gbaji, you think that no one has questioned the effectiveness of Bush's economic policies from the the ground up?

Or that anyone who has must be a fringe lunatic because his policies were just that infallible? What flavor is the Kool-Ade they give you?

Not really except to laugh at how you guys are in a constant state of "That was the president's fault! No wait! That one was Congress! That one was... wait, who were the Democrats then, president or Congress? Cause it was THEIR fault!"

Uh huh. Wasn't it you who responded to statements about how Obama's economic plans are failing by pointing at Bush? Now you don't want to follow that comparison? Why make it in the first place? Just wanted to get another "RAR! Bush BAD!" off your chest?

Madmen in Authority

Rereading my post on the folly of the G20, it seems to me that I didn’t fully convey just how crazy the demand for fiscal austerity now now now really is.

The key thing you need to realize is that eliminating stimulus spending, while it would inflict severe economic harm, would do almost nothing to reduce future debt problems. Here’s the IMF’s estimate of sources of the growth in debt over the next few years:

[link=http://www.princeton.edu/~pkrugman/debtsource.png]

And even this figure conveys a misleading impression of the importance of stimulus spending. First, since cutting stimulus would weaken the economy, it would reduce revenues — that is, a substantial part of the debt growth the IMF attributes to stimulus would have happened even without stimulus, through lower revenue. Second, for the US at least the core reason for long-run budget concern is rising health care costs — in fact, health cost control is the sine qua non of long-run solvency — which has nothing whatever to do with how much we spend on job creation now.

So how much we spend on supporting the economy in 2010 and 2011 is almost irrelevant to the fundamental budget picture. Why, then, are Very Serious People demanding immediate fiscal austerity?

The answer is, to reassure the markets — because the markets supposedly won’t believe in the willingness of governments to engage in long-run fiscal reform unless they inflict pointless pain right now. To repeat: the whole argument rests on the presumption that markets will turn on us unless we demonstrate a willingness to suffer, even though that suffering serves no purpose.

And the basis for this belief that this is what markets demand is … well, actually there’s no sign that markets are demanding any such thing. There’s Greece — but the Greek situation is very different from that of the US or the UK. And at the moment everyone except the overvalued euro-periphery nations is able to borrow at very low interest rates.

So wise policy, as defined by the G20 and like-minded others, consists of destroying economic recovery in order to satisfy hypothetical irrational demands from the markets — demands that economies suffer pointless pain to show their determination, demands that markets aren’t actually making, but which serious people, in their wisdom, believe that the markets will make one of these days.

Awesome.

Jophed,



By and large yes. Incidentally this is why they were voted out during the mid-term elections. We thought we were getting conservative and ended up with more big govn spending. Of course this has just led us down the road we're on now with record govn spending and no growth in the private sector.

The recession, which Varus admits was the GOP's fault, was during 2001-2002

A post 9/11 market combined with the Dot.com bubble bursting was more likely the main causes, not the GOP.

You don't need to convince me that these things are largely caused by external factors

*After editing spelling, wording, & grammar*

I chose Liberalism, having at no time ever having the need to depend on it. I've never been on welfare, never had disability, never had unemployment, never had subsidized housing, & pay for my own health/dental/vision care. The difference between us (Well, one of many differences really) is that I don't care at all that my tax money goes to pay for other people who need those things. Just as I'm assured that should I need them, they'll be there for me.

I believe everyone of every color, class, gender, sexual preference (Except for furries. Fuck those creepy fucks), & culture have a right to live. I believe everyone has a right to their own religious beliefs, or lack of beliefs for that matter, but at the same time that everyone has a right to not have other people's religious beliefs forced upon them. I believe in science, so I believe evolution happened & continues to happen and that global warming is real NOT because I'm a liberal, but because that's what the best educated experts in their fields have found to be true by doing the research. I believe policy should be based on the best facts available, not on what's convenient politically.

I also believe we should strive for peace via diplomacy, not down the barrel of a gun.

Hippies.