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#77 May 05 2010 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I suppose that depends on the conspiracies though, doesn't it?

Dude, I totally read on a blog once that Obama was giving all sorts of support for this Odinga guy. Like campaigning for him and giving him money and everything.

They even had a picture of him standing with the guy which proved everything!


Facts are facts Joph... What are you denying? That he went there? That he met with Odinga? That he appeared in a photo shoot with him? That he gave a speech in which he made statements in support of his policies?

You're free to decide what significance that has, but those are facts.
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#78 May 05 2010 at 8:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Facts are facts Joph... What are you denying?

The initial claims you made when you were all breathless and wet in the crotch because you just read A BLOG!! that said he was lending all sorts of campaigning and financial support.

Are you really looking to embarrass yourself about this one again? It'll be fun and all but I doubt this is how to you want wind down this thread, looking like a retarded conspiracy nut yet again.
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#79 May 05 2010 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Facts are facts Joph... What are you denying?

The initial claims you made when you were all breathless and wet in the crotch because you just read A BLOG!! that said he was lending all sorts of campaigning and financial support.

Are you really looking to embarrass yourself about this one again? It'll be fun and all but I doubt this is how to you want wind down this thread, looking like a retarded conspiracy nut yet again.

At least *he'll* think he won the discussion, and that's all that matters...
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#80 May 05 2010 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Facts are facts Joph... What are you denying?

The initial claims you made when you were all breathless and wet in the crotch because you just read A BLOG!! that said he was lending all sorts of campaigning and financial support.


You're the one equating this to some kind of conspiracy theory Joph. All I did was point out what he had done and who he'd hung out with and given support to.

At some point, it certainly does say something about someone when we look at those he chooses to associate with and find a long list of radical leftists. There's no conspiracy at work. It's the kinds of people he has worked with in his life. We can assume that he doesn't agree with them politically, but why? Why would he be chosen to sit on specific foundation boards if it wasn't believed by those running them that he held ideals similar to theirs? Why would he choose to be in those positions unless he *did* agree with them? The Odinga thing was just one in a list of such associations Joph. If it were the first and only time he'd been involved with a radical socialist, it could certainly be excused or brushed off. But this has been a consistent occurrence in his personal and professional life.


I'm not sure why you feel you have to work so hard to fight against this. Based on years of your posts, you clearly agree with most of the same radical socialist positions. It's just odd that you have to deny that the people you support politically agree with you. Makes one assume that you know that their positions, while agreeable to you, are not so agreeable to most people, so you have to lie about it. That's very strange to me. Why not say "I like Obama because he's going to fight for all the socialist things I agree with"? If you think those things are worth doing, why not think they're worth being honest about?


Dunno... I've just never understood why those who so clearly support ideas like redistribution of wealth, massive social spending and government control/regulation of industry, will fall over themselves to insist that the candidates they support don't support those same things. Um... What?
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#81 May 05 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
You're the one equating this to some kind of conspiracy theory Joph. All I did was point out what he had done and who he'd hung out with and given support to.

Hahahaha... no

"All you did" was take some half-baked ideas fed to you from a blog and run in here all breathless making all sorts of claims that Obama must have been involved because... just look at these thin shreds of "evidence" like this carefully cropped photo and... umm... someone saying he probably gave a speech (which we have no transcript or audio of) and so it must have been about this! Because that's what makes sense to me!

Yeah. Real sharp mind you've got there. Even funnier that you insist to this day that it was all true.

Quote:
I'm not sure why you feel you have to work so hard to fight against this

You and I have radically different perceptions of "working hard".
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#82 May 06 2010 at 6:36 AM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I suppose that depends on the conspiracies though, doesn't it?

Dude, I totally read on a blog once that Obama was giving all sorts of support for this Odinga guy. Like campaigning for him and giving him money and everything.

They even had a picture of him standing with the guy which proved everything!


Facts are facts Joph... What are you denying? That he went there? That he met with Odinga? That he appeared in a photo shoot with him? That he gave a speech in which he made statements in support of his policies?

You're free to decide what significance that has, but those are facts.

Quote:
At some point, it certainly does say something about someone when we look at those he chooses to associate with and find a long list of radical leftists. There's no conspiracy at work. It's the kinds of people he has worked with in his life. We can assume that he doesn't agree with them politically, but why? Why would he be chosen to sit on specific foundation boards if it wasn't believed by those running them that he held ideals similar to theirs? Why would he choose to be in those positions unless he *did* agree with them? The Odinga thing was just one in a list of such associations Joph. If it were the first and only time he'd been involved with a radical socialist, it could certainly be excused or brushed off. But this has been a consistent occurrence in his personal and professional life.

Screenshot

Facts are facts, but we all make mistakes when we are young.

Edited, May 6th 2010 8:38am by Lubriderm
#83 May 06 2010 at 6:23 PM Rating: Default
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You aren't seriously trying to equate foreign policy associations with a foreign leader and associations chosen by a private citizen as part of his career and life? Now, if you can find examples of Saddam putting Bush Sr in charge of managing his rape rooms, you'd have a more analogous comparison.

Go look up the "Joyce Foundation" sometime. Or the "Woods Foundation". Do some research on who runs them, what their purposes are, and what kinda of things they spend money on. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with those groups, it's moronic to suggest that Obama does not share significant socio-political positions with them. Otherwise, they wouldn't have put him on various funds boards they controlled. You don't give someone access to planning and spending your money unless they agree with you on how it should be spent, right?


It's not about right or wrong, it's about the bizarre need of those on the left to deny that Obama shares the same views as the people he worked with so closely for so long. That's the part I just don't get. If you think those ideas are great, then why be so coy about acknowledging them?

Edited, May 6th 2010 5:31pm by gbaji
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#84 May 07 2010 at 7:28 AM Rating: Decent
Jophed,

Quote:
just look at these thin shreds of "evidence"


So you admit there's evidence. At least that's a start.
#85 May 07 2010 at 7:30 AM Rating: Decent
Jophed,

Quote:
conspiracies about Obama's associations with known terrorists


It's not a conspiracy if it's true.

#86 May 07 2010 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
Today's Word Varus Doesn't Understand is: conspiracy.
#87 May 07 2010 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
You aren't seriously trying to equate foreign policy associations with a foreign leader and associations chosen by a private citizen as part of his career and life? Now, if you can find examples of Saddam putting Bush Sr in charge of managing his rape rooms, you'd have a more analogous comparison.


You'll have to explain this one. Obama having connections to Bill Ayers is analogous to Bush Sr. running Saddam's rape rooms? Methinks you're going a little histrionic on the exaggeration here.
#88 May 07 2010 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
gbaji wrote:
You aren't seriously trying to equate foreign policy associations with a foreign leader and associations chosen by a private citizen as part of his career and life? Now, if you can find examples of Saddam putting Bush Sr in charge of managing his rape rooms, you'd have a more analogous comparison.


You'll have to explain this one. Obama having connections to Bill Ayers is analogous to Bush Sr. running Saddam's rape rooms? Methinks you're going a little histrionic on the exaggeration here.

If not for gross hyperbole he'd have little to say.
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#89 May 07 2010 at 12:09 PM Rating: Default
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LockeColeMA wrote:
You'll have to explain this one. Obama having connections to Bill Ayers is analogous to Bush Sr. running Saddam's rape rooms?


Yes. What part of an analogy do you fail to grasp? Obama and Ayers worked together in common cause. Obama sat on a board distributing money for a fund which Ayers (along with others of course) helped set up. That is absolutely analogous to someone working in the Saddam government to implement policy (in my example rape rooms, but if that makes you feel uncomfortable, let's just pretend Bush would have to have been say a minster in the Iraqi government instead).

An analogy does not mean that the two pairs of things are similar, but that the two pairs of things have similar internal relationships. Car is to plane as mouse is to bird. That doesn't mean that vehicles are in any way similar to animals. I'm not in any way implying that Ayers had Obama run rape rooms for him. He did, however, have Obama run a fund or two for him. Which is what makes it an analogy...
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#90 May 07 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Obama and Ayers worked together in common cause. Obama sat on a board distributing money for a fund which Ayers (along with others of course) helped set up.

Yeah. Education. Remember when what's-his-name spent weeks going through every record they had about those meetings and discovered that they talked about education? Boy, that rocked my world.

Funny thing though: even though you insisted at the time that the Republicans only cared about his educational connections and what that said about his ideology or somesuch, not once was Obama accused of "Paling around with education reformers."
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#91 May 07 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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Really? you're defending your rape room analogy as an appropriate one to use? Holy **** that's awesome! You know, you never let me down Gbaji.
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#92 May 07 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
Jophed,

Don't you mean indoctrination.

#93 May 07 2010 at 1:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
Don't you mean indoctrination.

No, I didn't. You should mess around with big words like that until you learn what they mean.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#94 May 07 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
knoxxsouthy wrote:
Don't you mean indoctrination.

No, I didn't. You should mess around with big words like that until you learn what they mean.
His family/schools/etc indoctrinated taught him that it meant education. Not his fault see?

Edited, May 7th 2010 2:09pm by Xsarus
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#95 May 07 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Default
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Really? you're defending your rape room analogy as an appropriate one to use? Holy @#%^ that's awesome! You know, you never let me down Gbaji.


I'm still thinking that some of you don't fully understand what an analogy is.

The relationship between Saddam and <someone running his rape rooms> is analogous to the relationship between Ayers and <someone running his education funds>.
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#96 May 07 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Funny thing though: even though you insisted at the time that the Republicans only cared about his educational connections and what that said about his ideology or somesuch, not once was Obama accused of "Paling around with education reformers."


To be fair, Ayers approach to education reform is a form of domestic terrorism all by itself.
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King Nobby wrote:
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#97 May 07 2010 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
Really? you're defending your rape room analogy as an appropriate one to use? Holy @#%^ that's awesome! You know, you never let me down Gbaji.


I'm still thinking that some of you don't fully understand what an analogy is.

The relationship between Saddam and <someone running his rape rooms> is analogous to the relationship between Ayers and <someone running his education funds>.
No, no it's not, or not in any useful way at any rate. But it's cool that you're going so far out of your way to demonstrate your inability to make analogies. Some of the new people might not have realized otherwise. Maybe you're confused about the word 'and'.

Sure in both cases there is an association, but that's as far as it goes. No it's not a good analogy. No it doesn't capture anything useful about the situation.

Edited, May 7th 2010 2:27pm by Xsarus
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#98 May 07 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
Really? you're defending your rape room analogy as an appropriate one to use? Holy @#%^ that's awesome! You know, you never let me down Gbaji.


I'm still thinking that some of you don't fully understand what an analogy is.

The relationship between Saddam and <someone running his rape rooms> is analogous to the relationship between Ayers and <someone running his education funds>.



Or Jesus and the Apostles. What is your point, exactly?

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#99 May 07 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
To be fair, Ayers approach to education reform is a form of domestic terrorism all by itself.

Yeah, that was an especially lame attempt to handwave off the reality of the GOP claims, even for you. Oh, and Obama wasn't running Ayers' funds; they were on a board together. Hell, for someone who whined that Obama never ran anything you'd think you'd know that.

Samira wrote:
Or Jesus and the Apostles

Or Josie & the Pussycats.
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#100 May 07 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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See, it was a totally valid analogy, there were two things in every case.

You need to remember that this is the guy, that when I criticized him for making the assertion that taxes are always harmful, told me that was because I was considering the whole picture, instead of ignoring most of what was going on. If you ignore most of the analogy, it's true that in both cases there are two people! They're even both male Smiley: schooled
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#101 May 07 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
You'll have to explain this one. Obama having connections to Bill Ayers is analogous to Bush Sr. running Saddam's rape rooms?


Yes. What part of an analogy do you fail to grasp


Oh, sorry, I thought you meant a "good" analogy, or a "relevant" analogy. You seem to have ignored the part I found silly: that it's a gross exaggeration and histrionic. It's a terrible analogy. I like the Jesus & the Apostles compared to Bush, Saddam and rape rooms though. Just as offensive, and just as irrelevant.

Now, saying that Bush Sr. sat on a board that Saddam was a part of (say, a board about oil) would be a better analogy, and more accurate.
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