I got a job. So now I want a new computer, as my olde one is both olde and brokene.
I want to spend under $800. I want to max out gaming performance for that money, and I have not been keeping up with what's good in modern computing. Show me what's good, Allakhazam. (Basically Kaolian.)
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First question: pre-built or build your own?
Second question: do you already have a monitor?
Second question: do you already have a monitor?
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
First question: pre-built or build your own?
Second question: do you already have a monitor?
Second question: do you already have a monitor?
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
]I dunno how to build my own, so I'd prefer pre-built unless building my own gets vastly different results.
I just built my own and, while I don't regret doing it for the experience at least once, it didn't make me an advocate. From what I hear, the difference is largely negligible these days.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Oh, here's Tech Report's System Buying Guide. I found it very helpful when I started. Looks as though your price point is between "Econobox" and "Utility Player".
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
I dunno how to build my own, so I'd prefer pre-built unless building my own gets vastly different results. Also I have a large flatscreen monitor, but it may need to be repaired.
Find a company that let's you custom choose your parts and will assemble it (and sometimes even setup) everything for you. There are many. It's the middle road between fully assembling yourself and the mass customization offered by companies like Dell.
I bought my pc through CyberPowerPC and paid only slightly above what I'd pay bargain hunting on newegg and other sites.
Aside from the pc though, I'd suggest buying all the peripherals separately yourself.
Edited, Apr 29th 2010 7:59pm by Allegory
I'm an advocate of the build your own route, always have been, but you need to be comfortable with putting hardware together, and you have to be prepared for things to go less than well sometimes. Really helps if you have someone local who can help you build your first one. If you don't have someone to look over your shouldar while you put one together, unfortunate things can occur, such as processor pin squishes.
$800 would get you into a decent core i7 gaming machine on the build your own route, 64 bit OS, start with 4GB ram, expand to 12GB someday when funding permits, 9800 GTX+ video card, etc. I can write up a configuration if you want to go that route.
On the pre-built line, you might want to start looking at something like a Dell XPS, or one of the HP workstations. I don't particularily like either HP or Dell chassis for workstations, and Gateway is not a viable option.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dxcwnn1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=studio-xps-8100
You could also go with one of the "budget" gaming build companies.
http://www.ibuypower.com/Store/Intel_X58_Core_i7_Configurator
$800 would get you into a decent core i7 gaming machine on the build your own route, 64 bit OS, start with 4GB ram, expand to 12GB someday when funding permits, 9800 GTX+ video card, etc. I can write up a configuration if you want to go that route.
On the pre-built line, you might want to start looking at something like a Dell XPS, or one of the HP workstations. I don't particularily like either HP or Dell chassis for workstations, and Gateway is not a viable option.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dxcwnn1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=studio-xps-8100
You could also go with one of the "budget" gaming build companies.
http://www.ibuypower.com/Store/Intel_X58_Core_i7_Configurator
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
$800 would get you into a decent core i7 gaming machine on the build your own route, 64 bit OS, start with 4GB ram, expand to 12GB someday when funding permits, 9800 GTX+ video card, etc. I can write up a configuration if you want to go that route.
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Are parts pretty much plug-n-use nowadays?
Pretty much. If you build your own, don't forget to budget for the OS.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
If Elne can build her own I would think just about anyone could.
I may sound like a broken record. Stay away from Dell. With their worst in the industry Customer service and tech support. You will avoid the many hours on the phone trying to get help. The Month or more delay in getting your system from them. Try one of the newer companys that are hungry for Dell's market and will provide you with the top notch customer service and support that everyone expects.
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
$800 would get you into a decent core i7 gaming machine on the build your own route, 64 bit OS, start with 4GB ram, expand to 12GB someday when funding permits, 9800 GTX+ video card, etc. I can write up a configuration if you want to go that route.
And Kao, if you can recommend which parts to get for roughly $800 then that would be cool as I will need a new PC somewhere this summer and i do want to build my own again.
Tailmon wrote:
I may sound like a broken record. Stay away from Dell. With their worst in the industry Customer service and tech support. You will avoid the many hours on the phone trying to get help. The Month or more delay in getting your system from them. Try one of the newer companys that are hungry for Dell's market and will provide you with the top notch customer service and support that everyone expects.
I always heard (and have found it true in my own experiences) that Dell had horrid customer service, but you don't really need to call customer service, as their computers don't crap out very often. But Gateway has excellent customer service, which is mandatory, as their computers are junk.
Building your own is much easier than it sounds. Everything is plug n play really and most boards come with a handy little "plug this in here" sheet. Most connectors only go in one way and in one place and the important connectors generally have the same text on them as the pins on the board. You almost have to try to ***** it up and if you do it's not going to brick your machine or anything.
If you build your own the only thing you really have to be careful with is the processor, and even that is easy, just don't force it. If it isn't going in easy you're doing it wrong. Make sure you put thermal goo on the processor before you put the heat sink on.
If you build your own the only thing you really have to be careful with is the processor, and even that is easy, just don't force it. If it isn't going in easy you're doing it wrong. Make sure you put thermal goo on the processor before you put the heat sink on.
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Tailmon wrote:
I may sound like a broken record. Stay away from Dell. With their worst in the industry Customer service and tech support. You will avoid the many hours on the phone trying to get help. The Month or more delay in getting your system from them. Try one of the newer companys that are hungry for Dell's market and will provide you with the top notch customer service and support that everyone expects.
I always heard (and have found it true in my own experiences) that Dell had horrid customer service, but you don't really need to call customer service, as their computers don't crap out very often. But Gateway has excellent customer service, which is mandatory, as their computers are junk.
I have a Dell. It's great, so far; but if anything breaks, I know by now to just fix it myself. I also have an old (old) Alienware, from before the acquisition. It has issues, mostly geriatric; but it's still creaking along.
One good reason to build your own is that you really do get a better deal overall, as long as you don't count the "cost" of your own labor. One reasonably good way to go about it would be to find a Dell, or a Gateway, or whatever you like, and then price out the components a la carte and see how much you might save by buying them separately and building it out yourself.
As Joph said, don't forget to include the OS in that. I'd add the cost of the case+fans and power supply, as well; most pre-mades don't list that as a separate expense.
The bad side, for me, is the temptation to upgrade everything. Starting with a set price point and working backward from that is definitely the way to go.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
One good reason to build your own is that you really do get a better deal overall, as long as you don't count the "cost" of your own labor. One reasonably good way to go about it would be to find a Dell, or a Gateway, or whatever you like, and then price out the components a la carte and see how much you might save by buying them separately and building it out yourself.
This, also keep in mind the quality of parts you are getting. Pre-builts tend to have great deals as far as common knowledge parts go (memory, HD space) but the motherboards are generally not that great, the memory is usually generic, the power supplies are usually just enough to power the existing system, and the fans are usually crap. Not that you need top of line stuff for any of that, but if you build your own you can choose the quality of the parts that matter to you as opposed to the crap generics the builders use.
Does anyone have a handy rule of thumb for how much the major components should cost, relatively?
For example: if Ash&c wants to build a gaming rig for $800, how much of that should be budgeted for the mobo + video card? Or would you calculate the case and fans first, and see how much you have left to spend on the big pieces? This assumes he has a monitor, speakers, keyboard and mouse left over from his last system.
For example: if Ash&c wants to build a gaming rig for $800, how much of that should be budgeted for the mobo + video card? Or would you calculate the case and fans first, and see how much you have left to spend on the big pieces? This assumes he has a monitor, speakers, keyboard and mouse left over from his last system.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Yodabunny wrote:
This, also keep in mind the quality of parts you are getting. Pre-builts tend to have great deals as far as common knowledge parts go (memory, HD space) but the motherboards are generally not that great, the memory is usually generic, the power supplies are usually just enough to power the existing system, and the fans are usually crap.
There's various places that are more open about the parts they're using and letting you "build" the system from the ground up. But if Ash has any experience at all in switching out RAM or video cards, he's already 80% of the way there and should feel pretty comfortable in building a system.
My own experience was less than Nirvana-attaining although I had two RMA issues which took some of my glow away. One was my fault and the source of Kao's bent pin quip; I tried to lower the CPU cover with the lever rather than lower the cap and then lower the lever. That bent some pins and ruined the motherboard. I also had a DOA power supply (don't buy Rosewill) that required 16 e-mails -- no exaggeration -- to Newegg to get properly refunded. Funny thing: Every customer service rep at Newegg has a somewhat unusual English first name and an Asian last name. Vanna Chang, Lola Wu, etc.
Once I learned how to not dork up my MB and got a new PSU, I was in business.
Few concerns I had were that I'd forget something such as a fan, wires, whatever. I didn't and everything came with all the required cables and connectors. The case I bought had fans, the PSU has a fan, the CPU comes with a fan. My other main worry was the motherboard since that I uncharted territory for me. Make sure your MB matches your CPU type, has slots for the memory you need, etc. I didn't do it wrong but it was probably the most research intensive item I bought. If nothing else, if you go with an i5 CPU (for example), you can check that site I linked and see what they recommend for a motherboard and either use that or use its stats as a template for what style you're looking for.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Motherboard first. Everything else can be upgraded later so start with the motherboard. High end motherboards can last years with fairly cheap upgrades. With a cheap motherboard a cheap upgrade turns into a complete rebuild because your board doesn't support new hardware that will be cheap next year.
How old is your current case? You might be able to use it and save some cash.
How old is your current case? You might be able to use it and save some cash.
Samira wrote:
Does anyone have a handy rule of thumb for how much the major components should cost, relatively?
For example: if Ash&c wants to build a gaming rig for $800, how much of that should be budgeted for the mobo + video card? Or would you calculate the case and fans first, and see how much you have left to spend on the big pieces? This assumes he has a monitor, speakers, keyboard and mouse left over from his last system.
For example: if Ash&c wants to build a gaming rig for $800, how much of that should be budgeted for the mobo + video card? Or would you calculate the case and fans first, and see how much you have left to spend on the big pieces? This assumes he has a monitor, speakers, keyboard and mouse left over from his last system.
I have two rules, and both depend on the budget and the needs of the person who will own the computer. Rule 1. If you build your own computer, you will have the case longer than any other component of the computer. Whatever you pick, you will likely be stuck with for years longer than any other part. It makes sense to spend a bit more and get exactly the case you want. Can you get a case for $30? sure. Should you? Almost never. The Cooler Master CM 690 is about the lowest end I will go on a case (not to say it is low end, it is a very good case. you just shouldn't bother with anything else). Almost every case out there comes with at least the basic fan package, so at most you might be looking at a couple extra 120mm fans for $15 (if you go with the vantec stealth fans or similar) If you water cool it instead expect to add at least $150.
The other rule, is get the best motherboard technology you can afford. Everything else, even proessor is easier to upgrade than a motherboard. I generally advise people to start with a good case and motherboard, budget at least $250 for those two components alone ($100ish for case, $150 for motherboard), then budget the rest accordingly. For your initial build, skimp on ram, go with the lower end hard drive and the used DVD drive you pulled out of your old PC if you need to, but try and get that slightly higher end processor that is going to last you longer in the end.
The component ratio really depends on the level of system you are shooting for, and the technology you choose to go with. An Intel build around the $800 mark is going to be around $70-100 case, $80 Power supply, $200-$250 for the CPU, $125 for the motherboard, $35-$50 on the hard drive, $22 on a dvd burner, $50 on the ram with the intent to upgrade later, and $120 on the video card assuming the 9800 GTX's are still available in quantity. If not, the latter figure goes up to around $260. Operating system can be had for between $70 and $200, depending on options and whether you can find an old XP license key to upgrade off of.
If you go with an AMD CPU, your processor costs are going to be about 1/3rd lower than a comperable intel processor, but there will be a slight speed decrease. the boards tend to be about the same cost for either.
For a higher end gaming rig that might be looking at running SLI or crossfire configurations someday, and the value of the components goes up quite a bit, it makes sense to go with a higher end power supply. For example, the 1,000 watt enermax unit in my main gaming computer ran about $250 on sale, but it has a lifetime warrenty, and very high end relays and capacitors that I trust. Would I reccommend that for everyone? not a chance. Your average video card cost goes from about 1 10th of your system at that point, to being between 1/3rd and 1/2 of the total cost when you factor in the multiple cards. CPU is usually the other major expense at that level. You do get the benifit though of staying with relevent technology longer, so it usually possible to upgrade higher end gaming rig without needing to purchase as many new components. Doesn't always work out that way, but more often than not.
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Jophiel wrote:
Make sure your MB matches your CPU type, has slots for the memory you need, etc. I didn't do it wrong but it was probably the most research intensive item I bought. If nothing else, if you go with an i5 CPU (for example), you can check that site I linked and see what they recommend for a motherboard and either use that or use its stats as a template for what style you're looking for.
I'm always up for checking components out as well. if you ever have a question about computer stuff, feel free to PM or e-mail me.
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What's with all the hatred towards Gateway? Now I'll grant that my knowledge of computers can be summed up with the fact that I had to look and see what brand I have when I read this thread, but I've had my Gateway for about 4 years now and never had a problem.
One of the big reasons I ask is I can't expand my computers memory beyong 4 gigs and I'd like to ramp up my graphics on games. Does ram affect that?
One of the big reasons I ask is I can't expand my computers memory beyong 4 gigs and I'd like to ramp up my graphics on games. Does ram affect that?
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
And Kao, if you can recommend which parts to get for roughly $800 then that would be cool as I will need a new PC somewhere this summer and i do want to build my own again.
Ok, one $800 range computer of doom:
Case: Cooler Master CM 690 version II Advanced - $99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119216
The standard CM 690-II is currently running about $79. For the extra $20 you get a SATA HDD dock on the top and a video card bracket that comes in handy. Next step up case would be something like a Thermaltake Speedo or a Liaan Li case.
Power supply: Antec 650 watt - $74
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371015
Might want to go bigger if you plan on SLI or crossfire. Plenty adequate for a single video card system though. An 800 watt starts at about $120.
Motherboard: ASUS P7P55D PRO LGA 1156 $165
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131405
Motherboards have gone up stupidly in price in the last month. The Asus P6T deluxe V2 Socket 1366 motherboard I was going to reccomend is currently $300. It was $150 2 months ago. Not sure why the price jump all the sudden. So, next step down from there is Socket 1156. Can still get a decent Core i7 or a mid to high Core-i5 processor to fit there. you lose 2 ram slots and are limited to 8GB theoretical at the moment ram though. That board has USB 3, can support up to 4 video cards in SLI mode if you really wanted to. its basically the full size version of what I have in my Media PC downstairs.
CPU: $200 Quad core Core i5, or the 8 core Core i7 for $279
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115214
I'd go with the octo core for a higher end CPU myself. But then again i would have gone with the Socket 1366 motherboard too. If you are planning on going with windows 7, the extra cores will pay dividends for gaming and for other activities.
Ram: 4GB Corsair, 2 sticks 2x 2GB, $119
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145260
You could go with a single 2GB stick and free up $50, then upgrade later. 2GB isn't really adequate for a windows 7 ssystem, but would get you booted and maybe with a better CPU. Eventually would want to expand that to at least 8GB. Ram prices have gone up too.
Video Card: EVGA 9800 GTX+ $129
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145260
Lifetime warrenty, fairly fast, dirt cheap for a GTX card. Next step up would be a 260 GTX, then a 285 GTX, then a 470 GTX, then a 480 GTX. Board would support at least 2 of these in SLI mode if you have at least a 24 inch monitor to make use of it. These are becomign rarer as the newer, much faster cards come out. But this is definitly the price vs. performance sweet spot still.
HDD: Western digital 7200 RPM hDD 160GB - $39
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136075
Fairly inexpensive, can upgrade to a 10,000 RPM raptor or a solid state drive later, will likely want to get a secondary 500gb or larger drive later. They start around $79
Optical: 22x DVD with lightscribe - $26
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136168
eh, a sata burner is a sata burner these days. Blue ray burners start at about $150.
So that comes out to $851 with the $200 processor. Can knock off $50 if you halve the ram. Operating system adds another $139 for 64 bit professional win7 OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136168
If you had to cut somewhere, could go with a $100 non SLI capable motherboard. Possibly a lower end temporary video card. If you shop around should be able to find a low end power supply in the 700 watt range for around $50 +/-. Don't buy the rosewill.
Edited, Apr 30th 2010 11:38pm by Kaolian
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allenjj wrote:
What's with all the hatred towards Gateway? Now I'll grant that my knowledge of computers can be summed up with the fact that I had to look and see what brand I have when I read this thread, but I've had my Gateway for about 4 years now and never had a problem.
One of the big reasons I ask is I can't expand my computers memory beyong 4 gigs and I'd like to ramp up my graphics on games. Does ram affect that?
One of the big reasons I ask is I can't expand my computers memory beyong 4 gigs and I'd like to ramp up my graphics on games. Does ram affect that?
Gateway enterprise basically quit buisiness and screwed thousands of buisiness IT people when they said "well, we're broke, and we aren't providing warranty support if your brand new machines of which you just bought 3000 statewide die, so @#%^ you all, and have a nice day". Gateway personal computers still kind of exists, but its basically a shack with 5 guys assembling computers these days. The machines themselves aren't bad. Support is nonexistant though and they personally made my other job more difficult so they are on my sh*t list.
Edited, Apr 30th 2010 11:38pm by Kaolian
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