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How much do you hate powerpoint?Follow

#1 Apr 27 2010 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
I bet the answer is not enough.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/27powerpoint.html?src=me&ref=general

"“PowerPoint makes us stupid,”* Gen. James N. Mattis of the Marine Corps, the Joint Forces commander, said this month at a military conference in North Carolina."

"“It’s dangerous because it can create the illusion of understanding and the illusion of control,” General McMaster said in a telephone interview afterward. “Some problems in the world are not bullet-izable.”"

"Senior officers say the program does come in handy when the goal is not imparting information, as in briefings for reporters."*

"Those types of PowerPoint presentations, Dr. Hammes said, are known as “hypnotizing chickens.”"


* = particularly awesome quote

It may seem as if I am picking on the military for overusing this. And then some will say I hate America, the Military, or that I'm a secret Muslim/communist/freemason/game show host. Actually, the US military seems aware of this and the limitations. I'm more interested in what good and poor uses powerpoint has. For example, in education: several of you folks are in college. I assume some courses are taught in powerpoint, some not. Any difference?
#2 Apr 27 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
I hate powerpoint with a searing passion no earthly flame can rival.

I fired a woman last year for insisting on reporting out to me with a PP deck on every project.
#3 Apr 27 2010 at 2:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've had college/university level courses taught using Powerpoint. I don't care for it but I don't hate it either. I've noticed that it requires the student to be more attentive in order to pick up on the details between the one-line bullet points (because the instructor is less likely to write it all out on the white board as they go along) and, at the same time, they're encouraged to zone out because they usually have a "study guide" which is the printed out PP presentation.
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#4 Apr 27 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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http://prezi.com/

Much, much, much better alternative to PowerPoint.
#5 Apr 27 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
Eske wrote:
http://prezi.com/

Much, much, much better alternative to PowerPoint.


Powerpoint is just fine as a tool. The problem is how the tool is used.

At one time, slide show type presentations were used as visual aids in meetings. Over the past 10-15 years, they've become more of a crutch... a crutch made of balsa wood. As far as I'm concerned, if I never again see a slide with 3 bullet items in 24 point font nestled smugly beneath a corporate logo, it's too soon.
#6 Apr 27 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
After much searching of my dusky corners of my hard drive, here is the link to the other anti-powerpoint article I have:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/04/03/1175366240499.html

Quick summary: "It is more difficult to process information if it is coming at you in the written and spoken form at the same time."

Here is the publication I think that news article is referring to:

http://hfs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/46/3/567



Edited, Apr 27th 2010 1:34pm by yossarian
#7 Apr 27 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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It's just another tool. I tend to use it to keep me on track as I tend to get ahead of myself when doing presentations.

It's nice for organizing written presentations, presenting data - graphs and charts and whatnot, also for embedding youtube videos into:)
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#8 Apr 27 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you want to use pp to place brief statements or images behind you that reinforce your key points, it can add real value to a presentation to a large group of people.

However, if you want to use it to give me a 1:1 briefing I will see how many USB thumb drives will fit in your *****

Worse still, are the morans who place their entire speech onto powerpoints and read them out. So far this year I have been driven to interrupt three speakers with a cry from the back: "Excuse me, but we can read. Would you switch off the projector, or bugger off and let us read the slide deck?"

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#9 Apr 27 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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Lord Nobby wrote:

Worse still, are the morans who place their entire speech onto powerpoints and read them out. So far this year I have been driven to interrupt three speakers with a cry from the back: "Excuse me, but we can read. Would you switch off the projector, or bugger off and let us read the slide deck?"


This.

Nothing annoys me more than having someone just read their presentation word for word as it is written on the screen. PowerPoint should be used to name topics, but the discussion itself should convey the information. The best classes I had in college did it this way. It also meant that people who didn't attend class were pretty well screwed come exam time, because they had no idea what the bullets meant without the relevant information taken from the text or given by the professor.

As long as PowerPoint is done that way, I think it's fine. Unless there's an overuse of the animations or something. Ugh.
#10 Apr 27 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Nothing annoys me more than having someone just read their presentation word for word as it is written on the screen. PowerPoint should be used to name topics, but the discussion itself should convey the information. The best classes I had in college did it this way. It also meant that people who didn't attend class were pretty well screwed come exam time, because they had no idea what the bullets meant without the relevant information taken from the text or given by the professor.


This as well.

A good power point presentation should include bullet points about what you're going to talk about, but little if any actual information. It should serve as a combination of your own note cards, and a reference point for the audience to follow along. It should not distract from what you're saying though, or it becomes counter productive. Following this rule means that your presentations will be short in terms of pages. Each page should be a major aspect of the presentation, each bullet a point to discuss. A typical 30 minute presentation should be maybe 10-12 total pages, preferably including the title and Q&A pages. If you spent more than 30 minutes making your power point presentation, you're over thinking it and putting too much data down.

If the information you presented needs to be saved in some digital form for reference, include the supporting documentation (which has the information you actually talked about), not just the presentation. A power point presentation itself should *never* be considered documentation or used as a reference tool. It's there purely as a visual aid during the presentation itself. Which is probably what the General in the OP was talking about. I've seen people try to use them that way, and it always ends in tears...


EDIT: Oh yeah! Animations and whatnot do *not* make your presentation look sharp or professional or anything other than that say that you're a newbie who thinks people will be impressed by the equivalent of a crayon drawing on a fridge. See the point about not distracting from the presentation itself. Just pick a font and color scheme that works and move on with it.

Edited, Apr 27th 2010 2:04pm by gbaji
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#11 Apr 27 2010 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
A gbaji observation about concise communication backed up by memory reinforcing fact-based aides-memoire
Genius Smiley: clown
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#12 Apr 27 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Oh yeah! Animations and whatnot do *not* make your presentation look sharp or professional or anything other than that say that you're a newbie who thinks people will be impressed by the equivalent of a crayon drawing on a fridge. See the point about not distracting from the presentation itself. Just pick a font and color scheme that works and move on with it.


Pillock.

I use the Smiley: banghead smiley in a number of presentations to reinforce the irony when I'm referencing some bizarre Government policy that makes no sense.

Like I say. The slide should be a means of reinforcing the point you're making without being a distraction. Animations can make a huge impact if used sparingly and if they're apposite.
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#13 Apr 27 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
A good power point presentation should include bullet points about what you're going to talk about, but little if any actual information. It should serve as a combination of your own note cards...


I disagree wholeheartedly. Maybe in a recap scenario, but that's it. Powerpoint slides should be used to display things that cannot be easily or efficiently expressed verbally. Charts, graphs, tables, etc... are all perfect candidates for slides. What amounts to a cue card (or your hand, if you're Sarah Palin) with your major talking points on it has no place drawing attention to the screen and away from the discussion.
#14 Apr 27 2010 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
Lord Nobby wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Oh yeah! Animations and whatnot do *not* make your presentation look sharp or professional or anything other than that say that you're a newbie who thinks people will be impressed by the equivalent of a crayon drawing on a fridge. See the point about not distracting from the presentation itself. Just pick a font and color scheme that works and move on with it.


Pillock.

I use the Smiley: banghead smiley in a number of presentations to reinforce the irony when I'm referencing some bizarre Government policy that makes no sense.

That's odd, I use the Smiley: facepalm smiley in a number of posts responding to gbaji in reference to the pain I experience having read a full screen response to a 3 word post.
#15 Apr 27 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
gbaji wrote:
A good power point presentation should include bullet points about what you're going to talk about, but little if any actual information. It should serve as a combination of your own note cards...


I disagree wholeheartedly. Maybe in a recap scenario, but that's it. Powerpoint slides should be used to display things that cannot be easily or efficiently expressed verbally. Charts, graphs, tables, etc... are all perfect candidates for slides. What amounts to a cue card (or your hand, if you're Sarah Palin) with your major talking points on it has no place drawing attention to the screen and away from the discussion.


Sorry. I meant "text information". Inserting visual representations of data relevant to your presentation is obviously acceptable. I assumed we were talking about the text aspect of PP. I disagree with the opposition to the "cue card" approach though. You need sufficient bullet/title text to indicate what area of the presentation you're covering at any given time and to give a sense of flow. I've seen them with too much text and you get bogged down (and you could have just emailed the info in document format and saved a bunch of people some time). I've also seen them with just charts and graphs and not sufficient text to know what this data is, or how it relates to the last 5 slides with charts and graphs on them.

Go sit and watch a PP that is just page after page of charts and graphs sometime. You will not absorb a damn thing. Go sparing on those, with just enough to convey the major information. Assuming this is a presentation of some other work, that other work should be available and documented as well. Put a link in the meeting invite to the online docs, web page, or actual product/data/whatever you're doing the presentation about. Putting to much "stuff" in a presentation itself tends to cause the brain in your viewers to shut off. They want to know why what you're showing them is worth the time they're spending in the room. Find ways to present your data visually in as simple and straightforward a way possible. There's a whole art form to dashboard presentations, but you usually don't use power point for them. PP is *not* a great format for that sort of thing.
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#16 Apr 27 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Powerpoint is a great tool and there is much you can do with it. Is it really so surprising that people are using it incorrectly? This is less a problem with powerpoint and more a problem with people not being able to effectively present ideas.
#17 Apr 27 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
Just to throw a complete monkey wrench into the works here: I go to technical conferences from time to time and we used to use overheads. Now we use powerpoint. This largely happened between 2000 and 2005. And by "we" I mean 95+% of all attendees used slides in 2000, and by 2005 95+% used powerpoint (or a variant).

I can't find the article but generally folks think that the new (PPT) talks are: (A) less technical, (B) contain less information, (C) use larger fonts, (D) are less flexible (see below). Thus overall they suck.

With overheads the question time was generally opened with a totally blank new transparency upon which the speaker would write out equations or sketch the graphs to answer people's questions. Yes, in principle it can be done on, say, a windows machine with an equation editor or a paint program - but generally this is not currently done.

Often beside/above the hand written answers were other slides superimposed with important results from both visible.

Now, of course, some know-it-all is going to tell me there is a wonderful program which does all this.

Please, please, please!
#18 Apr 27 2010 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
gbaji wrote:
A good power point presentation should include bullet points about what you're going to talk about, but little if any actual information. It should serve as a combination of your own note cards...


I disagree wholeheartedly. Maybe in a recap scenario, but that's it. Powerpoint slides should be used to display things that cannot be easily or efficiently expressed verbally. Charts, graphs, tables, etc... are all perfect candidates for slides. What amounts to a cue card (or your hand, if you're Sarah Palin) with your major talking points on it has no place drawing attention to the screen and away from the discussion.


Sorry. I meant "text information". Inserting visual representations of data relevant to your presentation is obviously acceptable. I assumed we were talking about the text aspect of PP. I disagree with the opposition to the "cue card" approach though. You need sufficient bullet/title text to indicate what area of the presentation you're covering at any given time and to give a sense of flow. I've seen them with too much text and you get bogged down (and you could have just emailed the info in document format and saved a bunch of people some time). I've also seen them with just charts and graphs and not sufficient text to know what this data is, or how it relates to the last 5 slides with charts and graphs on them.

Go sit and watch a PP that is just page after page of charts and graphs sometime. You will not absorb a damn thing. Go sparing on those, with just enough to convey the major information. Assuming this is a presentation of some other work, that other work should be available and documented as well. Put a link in the meeting invite to the online docs, web page, or actual product/data/whatever you're doing the presentation about. Putting to much "stuff" in a presentation itself tends to cause the brain in your viewers to shut off. They want to know why what you're showing them is worth the time they're spending in the room. Find ways to present your data visually in as simple and straightforward a way possible. There's a whole art form to dashboard presentations, but you usually don't use power point for them. PP is *not* a great format for that sort of thing.


I'm with brownduck on this one, but it's likely due to the particular context of my PP usage. The way that I typically use PP is with zero text, and limiting the amount of images per slide to typically 1-2. I'm an architecture major though, and can thus assume that my audience is really only interested in images. Exposition through image is always preferable to text for us.

I like to keep the amount of slides to a minimum, work with a solid black background, use regular transitions, and give plenty of time to verbally elaborate on what I'm going for with each particular image. The idea is to avoid overloading the audience, and keep them focused first on my speaking, and second on my images.

To brownduck: I didn't mean to suggest that PP is bad in-and-of-itself (any issues with it are definitely due to users with poor presentation skills). I personally find Prezi to be far more versatile and dynamic, however. I definitely recommend it for any situation where you need a little more visual flair, without the tackiness of PP's effects. I use it occasionally for my studio critiques.

Edited, Apr 27th 2010 8:10pm by Eske
#19 Apr 27 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Good
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Obviously, the content of the "points" you're making on each page are going to differ due to the audience you're presenting to and the nature of the presentation. But the basic concepts are the same. You're using it as a straight slide show type presentation, which it'll do, but isn't really what it's designed for. You could have used a slide projector, or Web browser, or just used native MS tools to view a series of images in a slideshow.

The article linked in the OP was specifically about the bullet nature of text in PP, and how that ends out dumbing down the content. PP is really designed for sales presentations. If you're pitching an idea or product, it works. You can use it for other things, but what's the old saying? When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything ends out looking like a nail. The structure of PP will tend to make your presentations look like a sales pitch. Now, if you're trying to convince a group of managers to sign off on some new project, that's precisely what it's for. If you're trying to use it to instruct a group of people how to use the tool you designed as part of the new project, it doesn't work nearly as well.


For the record though, I hold much much more hate for MS project than I do for power point. Talk about a piece of software that often tends to make projects longer and more tedious than they need to be...
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#20 Apr 27 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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How much do you hate powerpoint?


Not as much as I hate threads about it.

/yawn
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#21 Apr 27 2010 at 7:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've seen good powerpoint presentations, and I've seen horrible ones. Content is about 50% of the battle, presenter skills are another 30, and the last 20 is technology and how well it is set up.

For my other job, we have lots of engineers designing... things. These things involve many large format cad diagrams and maps. We've fitted all our conference rooms out with Smartboard SB680i and SB690i touchscreen displays, which allow our engineers to hold their design meetings with a series of map and diagram slides, mark them up during the course of the meeting in collaboration with other engineers at dozens of other sites throughout the state, then save and preserve and dissiminate that data to everyone that attended the meeting. Prior to this the old standby was the whiteboard and everyone taking their own notes, and never an electronic record. That works well, the engineers and management seem to love it, and we are saving thousands of miles a year on transportation costs. On the same system though I have seen people try to give textbook magnitude displays of text all at once, while having never used the system in the conference rooms, not understanding how to use any of the tools, and failing miserably despite being very knowledgable about the subject otherwise. It definitly is easier for people to fake their knowledge with it, but only if they don't have somoene familiar with the subject on hand to ream them if they do try.
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#22 Apr 27 2010 at 8:53 PM Rating: Good
I wish my honors Calc II professor *had* used powerpoint. As it was, he used a good old fashioned chalk board. He'd do a long function across the board, get 2/3 of the way in, and go "Oh wait a minute, that's not right." *erase erase, start over*

If he had prepared the equations in PP form, they would have been right the first time.
#23 Apr 27 2010 at 11:39 PM Rating: Good
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In all my personal college experience I think I'm the only one who hasn't put their entire script up on the screen.

I'd like them to just remove the type function.
#24 Apr 28 2010 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
If you're trying to use it to instruct a group of people how to use the tool you designed as part of the new project, it doesn't work nearly as well.


Okay: let's say you *are* trying to do that. What tool would you use? What if they ask detailed questions you need to generate new equations or graphs on the fly to answer?
#25 Apr 28 2010 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
yossarian wrote:
gbaji wrote:
If you're trying to use it to instruct a group of people how to use the tool you designed as part of the new project, it doesn't work nearly as well.


Okay: let's say you *are* trying to do that. What tool would you use? What if they ask detailed questions you need to generate new equations or graphs on the fly to answer?

If I was trying to do that I would be using a shared screen with a session of the tool running in a web conference and demonstrate any questions asked in real time.
#26 Apr 28 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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Like anything, it depends on your purpose. If you're using PP for a general presentation, bullet points and any relevant visualized data. If you're using it for instruction, an outline format works well, also allowing for the student to fill in with particulars. It also makes organizing a written report quite easy.

PP works with other files exceptionally well making it easy to do a report/presentation incorporating and manipulating stuff from excel, word, spss, flowcharts, pictures, videos, etc, etc.
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