http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=152988769
I doubt it'll ever happen because I don't believe a judge or any police official would have the balls to pass out it, but still thought some of you may want to read.
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QUESTION!
Isn't Vatican City considered a separate nation? Could they make a jurisdiction claim here? Even if he isn't a head of state, he could still claim to be a member of a sovereign nation.
Of course, this requires he isn't still a citizen of his original nation. I have no clue how citizenship works with Popedom.
Isn't Vatican City considered a separate nation? Could they make a jurisdiction claim here? Even if he isn't a head of state, he could still claim to be a member of a sovereign nation.
Of course, this requires he isn't still a citizen of his original nation. I have no clue how citizenship works with Popedom.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
idiggory wrote:
QUESTION!
Isn't Vatican City considered a separate nation? Could they make a jurisdiction claim here? Even if he isn't a head of state, he could still claim to be a member of a sovereign nation.
Of course, this requires he isn't still a citizen of his original nation. I have no clue how citizenship works with Popedom.
Isn't Vatican City considered a separate nation? Could they make a jurisdiction claim here? Even if he isn't a head of state, he could still claim to be a member of a sovereign nation.
Of course, this requires he isn't still a citizen of his original nation. I have no clue how citizenship works with Popedom.
Even if they consider the Vatican a separate nation the Pope isn't the Sovereign, the citizens consider God to be their ruler. The Pope is just the Head of P.R.
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The article gives the impression (via lawyer Mark Stephens who works for Hitchens & Dawkins) that the Vatican's sovereign status isn't acknowledged internationally but I'm not so sure. The CIA World Fact Book lists the Vatican as an independent sovereign state, for instance with this additional note in the FAQ:
The US and UK are obviously two different places with their own laws but I'm really skeptical of Stephens' claim.
Quote:
Vatican City is found under Holy See. The term "Holy See" refers to the authority and sovereignty vested in the Pope and his advisors to direct the worldwide Catholic Church. As the jurisdictional equal of a state, the Holy See can enter into treaties and sends and receives diplomatic representatives. Vatican City, created in 1929 to administer properties belonging to the Holy See in Rome, is recognized under international law as a sovereign state, but it does not send or receive diplomatic representatives. Consequently, Holy See is included as a Factbook entry, with Vatican City cross-referenced in the Geographic Names appendix.
The US and UK are obviously two different places with their own laws but I'm really skeptical of Stephens' claim.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Shaowstrike wrote:
Even if they consider the Vatican a separate nation the Pope isn't the Sovereign, the citizens consider God to be their ruler. The Pope is just the Head of P.R.
Quoting again from the CIA World Fact Book:
Quote:
chief of state: Pope BENEDICT XVI (since 19 April 2005)
head of government: Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio BERTONE (since 15 September 2006)
cabinet: Pontifical Commission for the State of Vatican City appointed by the pope
elections: pope elected for life by the College of Cardinals; election last held 19 April 2005 (next to be held after the death of the current pope); secretary of state appointed by the pope
election results: Joseph RATZINGER elected Pope BENEDICT XVI
head of government: Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio BERTONE (since 15 September 2006)
cabinet: Pontifical Commission for the State of Vatican City appointed by the pope
elections: pope elected for life by the College of Cardinals; election last held 19 April 2005 (next to be held after the death of the current pope); secretary of state appointed by the pope
election results: Joseph RATZINGER elected Pope BENEDICT XVI
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
I may be completely off here but it is possibly something to do with EU law and how the Vatican is represented through that.
According to the EU's website:
So the EU not only acknowledges Vatican City as an independent state, it also enters into economic agreements with it as it would with other sovereign states.
Quote:
The Vatican, covering only 0.44 km2 in the heart of Rome, is the smallest state in the world. It is an independent, sovereign state and not a member of the European Union. Nor does it belong to the Community or its customs territory. The Vatican’s customs rules are based on a 1930 agreement with Italy which exempts the Vatican from all Community duties and taxes. The small amount of goods originating in the Vatican and exported to Italy is exempt from duty and subject to a preferential arrangement.
The first Apostolic Nuncio was accredited to the European Communities in 1970. The European Commission appointed the Head of Delegation to the United Nations in Rome as representative to the Holy See in 2006.
In view of the introduction of the Euro, the EU Council of Ministers authorized Italy to negotiate a Monetary Agreement with the Vatican City which was signed in 2000. In 2009, a review of the existing Monetary Agreements resulted into necessary amendments. Therefore a new Monetary Agreement was concluded between the EU and the Vatican City State. It came into force on 1 January 2010.
The first Apostolic Nuncio was accredited to the European Communities in 1970. The European Commission appointed the Head of Delegation to the United Nations in Rome as representative to the Holy See in 2006.
In view of the introduction of the Euro, the EU Council of Ministers authorized Italy to negotiate a Monetary Agreement with the Vatican City which was signed in 2000. In 2009, a review of the existing Monetary Agreements resulted into necessary amendments. Therefore a new Monetary Agreement was concluded between the EU and the Vatican City State. It came into force on 1 January 2010.
So the EU not only acknowledges Vatican City as an independent state, it also enters into economic agreements with it as it would with other sovereign states.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
So I guess the whole thing is moot? The UK isn't going to arrest someone they consider to be a sovereign of another nation. And even if they don't think he is, they aren't going to go against the EU, which does.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
The whole thing seems like good ole attention whoring from Hitchens and Dawkins who get their name in the paper by claiming they can lead the way towards having the Pope arrested. Regardless of the legalities of it.
I'm disappointed in MSN for quoting Stephens and leaving readers with the impression that his quote is accurate without even attempting to correct it. Not that MSN should say that Stephens is a big dummy-head or something but if someone says something obviously factually inaccurate, it should at least go noted.
Edited, Apr 12th 2010 12:53pm by Jophiel
I'm disappointed in MSN for quoting Stephens and leaving readers with the impression that his quote is accurate without even attempting to correct it. Not that MSN should say that Stephens is a big dummy-head or something but if someone says something obviously factually inaccurate, it should at least go noted.
Edited, Apr 12th 2010 12:53pm by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
I don't see how, there's no way his pope hat will fit into a cop car.
"I have lost my way
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
idiggory wrote:
So I guess the whole thing is moot? The UK isn't going to arrest someone they consider to be a sovereign of another nation. And even if they don't think he is, they aren't going to go against the EU, which does.
Zippi Livni (Israeli foreign minister) recently cancelled a trip to London when a London Council successfully called for an arrest warrant over her involvement in the Lebanese invasion and incursions into Palestine (or summink like that).
A legal rout is moot. In Ratzinger's case we should just make sure that on his imminent visit to the UK, abuse victims are allowed to stand at the front waving "I was repeatedly raped as a child by your colleagues and you covered it up" banners.
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Lord Nobby wrote:
While the likelihood is slim, UK law still has the power to arrest, try, and if guilty, convict foreign nationals
I'll take your word on that (you even have examples). I was taking more exception to Stephens' claim that Vatican City/Holy See isn't a state and that there's no international standing for the Vatican's sovereign status.
I don't know why the Pope would want to visit a bunch of dumb half-atheist Anglicans anyway.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
In conclusion, all foreign ministers should be named Zippi.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
In conclusion, all foreign ministers should be named Zippi.
"Sir, the Foreign Minister of Microcephalia is here to see you."
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Jophiel wrote:
The whole thing seems like good ole attention whoring from Hitchens and Dawkins who get their name in the paper by claiming they can lead the way towards having the Pope arrested. Regardless of the legalities of it.
Ya think? Loved the backhanded insertion of a connection to Mussolini as well. Classy!
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Samira wrote:
In conclusion, all foreign ministers should be named Zippi.
But only if they're accompanied by advisors named George, Geoffrey and Bungle.
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
I'd like Dawkins a whole lot more if he wasn't just as big a douche about Atheism as Fred Phelps is about Christianity.
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
while it isnt an arrest I find it telling that priests (at least this one) is taking a stand and asking for the Popes resignation.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/13/massachusetts.priest.pope/index.html
I'm not a fan of organized religion, but I have a deep respect for anyone who is willing to stand up to their leaders and say "this isn't right". I doff my cap to this priest
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/13/massachusetts.priest.pope/index.html
I'm not a fan of organized religion, but I have a deep respect for anyone who is willing to stand up to their leaders and say "this isn't right". I doff my cap to this priest
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