Poll: Way Down SouthFollow

Yes. He's from the south. Ergo, to him it wasn't a civil war either...



You're correct. What mattered was what the South thought it actually was. Because that's what defined their military objectives. And their military objectives did *not* include capturing Washington DC and taking control of the entire US. While you can pull out a dictionary and correctly "call it" a civil war after the fact, it very clearly wasn't one to the South.

Isn't it more important what it was than what we can call it by dictionary definition?



I'll respond the same way I responded to Allegory. That cannot be the full definition of "civil war", otherwise all wars are civil wars. You can't make an argument resting wholly on definition and the use a dumb definition. If you're going to be **** about meaning, then be precise as well.


I still maintain that it's silly to quibble over definitions while ignoring the actual reality of the thing we're talking about. Terminology aside, Varus is correct with the more important part of his post. The South did not have an intention to take control of the US. IMO, there is value in making that point as a means of distinguishing that internal conflict from others in which the goal was precisely that. Arguing "But it's a civil war!" is meaningless when the point the other guy is making is to distinguish *this* civil war, from others. That's why I brought up that cars and planes are both vehicles, but there's value in using the more precise terms.


Most civil wars involve an internal struggle for control of an entire country. That's what most people think of when they think of a civil war. It is important to make the point that the South during the US Civil War did not have that objective. Had they, it's quite possible our history would have turned out quite a bit different.

Stop eating paste before you post.

Lew Rockwell is "most definitions" now?

Tee-hee!

I can only assume this is trolling because people legitimately this retarded can't type.


You'd be wrong.



He was clear. He was just wrong.


But not silly enough to not spend a page engaging in it. Gotcha.

Edited, Apr 13th 2010 3:59pm by Jophiel

How about quoting the whole thing:



Yeah, you can't import them, except from authorized sources. What a nimrod.

Wow. I know you aren't that stupid, gbaji. That was desperate, even for you.



I disagree.



Ok. You can suggest that all you want. Luckily, we have dictionaries where we can go look up a definition and find out, so we can then use it correctly.





No. Terms really mean what they really mean. Sometimes, though, people use them incorrectly and try to convince others that they mean whatever works for their argument.



He must have been unclear. We're arguing about it, aren't we? And if it seems silly to you, then you must find yourself awful silly, because not only are you participating in this leg of the discussion, but you're usually right there in the middle every single time it happens.

On behalf of those of us who grew up in the South and are not functionally retarded, I have a few statements to make.

I grew up calling it the Civil War.

I grew up knowing the root causes were slavery, and the balance of power between the slave states and the free states.

I thought then, and still believe, that it is entirely possible to be both heroic and tragically misguided, gloriously brave and utterly wrong.

Thank you. Now, back to your regularly scheduled squabbling.

This is of course why the Confederacy changed "No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State" and allowed the Confederate Congress to levy state-specific tariffs.

If States' rights were so important, the Supremacy clause would be nixed, wouldn't it? ...sh*t, nullification is still illegal there. So is being a free state.

The Confederate Constitution is really ****** (although it's still incredibly similar to the US Constitution) and it's surprising people think it's some bastion of states' rights.

Edited, Apr 13th 2010 4:33pm by Sweetums

Really, not everyone one in the South holds this bizarre loyalty to a failed nation.

You don't agree that "war of secession" is a better term to describe that conflict than "civil war"? Why?

This.

You have GOT to remember, varus is not an accurate representation of southern people.

At all.

Now we really see what gbaji's shooting for.