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Lesbian Teen Sent to Fake PromFollow

#27 Apr 05 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I honestly don't care who you do or do not deign to hang out with. That's not my business, nor is it anyone elses business. No one is telling you to include Bruce and his gay lover to your Memorial day cook out.

But when someone insists that a high school student who only wanted to spend her prom night with the person she is in a relationship with "got what she deserved" when she was sent to a fake prom, that's bastardy at it's finest.

Reading the news articles, I get the impression that the "canceled" prom still took place at the country club. If that is the case, and it was the official gathering for the school, then I fail to see how it wasn't exactly what was "deserved" in the strictest sense of the word and the strict reading of the judges opinion (published reports, at any rate).
#28 Apr 05 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
gbaji wrote:
She got exactly the prom she demanded. One that had so little value to the other kids that they chose to go do something else instead. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised at this. The second this became a privately organized and funded event, she lost any power to force everyone else to do what she wanted them to.

Call it a life lesson. Acceptance is a two way street...


Firstly, stop doing this stupid fucking thing you do with the ellipsis after everything you say that you view as incisive or profound. It's pathetic.

Secondly, and less importantly, I don't know many people that believe unqualified acceptance is good. Most people would agree, once they get their tiny brains around the phrasing, that some things (injustice, for example) should not be accepted, given a choice. You're probably going to say something like "oh, but your view of what is unjust is determined by your beliefs!" because you've been riding that angle for a while now. Well, yeah, no sh*t. That doesn't in any way invalidate intolerance of injustice; it's not like a belief has to have a positive effect no matter what other beliefs you hold to be a good idea. I don't know, I feel silly even addressing this absurd belief of yours. Our lives are cheapened by living in a world where such a thing was thought up.


It's a freaking prom. Seriously. Its only value is that placed upon it by those who attend. Thus, it's perfectly reasonable for the prom to reflect what those who attend think a "prom" should be like. If a community of nudists think that means showing up in the buff, by all means they can make their rules require nudity. If a community of amish think that means showing up with the women covered from head to toe, then that's their choice. If a community of Muslims believe that prom requires traditional dress, that's their choice as well.

You get that this is about choice, right? It's about an event in which more than one person is involved. One person should not get to dictate the terms of the event for everyone else. If she does not value the dress or attendance requirements for the prom as it was planned, then she doesn't. But that does not give her the right to destroy that event for those who do. She can attend a dance that does not have the same rules or requirements, and those who do place value on such things can attend one that does. That is "fair".

There are many sorts of events that I don't like participating in, or don't think that whatever requirements are present make the event worth my time. But you know what I do? I go do something else that I enjoy. I don't fight legal battles to force other people to stop doing what they enjoy and force them to change what their doing to suit me. IMO, doing otherwise is just being a jerk. Which is what this girl did. She was not making prom "better" for everyone. She was destroying the prom that everyone else enjoyed so that it would be what she wanted it to be.

How did that work out for her? As I pointed out in my previous post, when you try to do that, most of the time you'll find yourself eating lunch all by yourself. You can't force people to attend a prom. They have to choose to do so. She forced a change to the "official" prom which made it something most of the other kids didn't want to attend. Surprise!


Here's another thing you do that pisses me off. If you're going to quote me, respond in some way to the things I say. Think you can manage it?

Thanks for omitting the ellipsis.
#29 Apr 05 2010 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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The problem seems to be that the "private" prom was only privately hosted, but still sponsored by the school in some way. Which means the judge's ruling on the district still applies.
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#30 Apr 05 2010 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
As to your assertion that no one is telling them who to hang out with, the judge would appear to disagree.
Quote:
He didn't stipulate that Constance also have a prom, but that she be invited to the* prom.


Telling the (federally funded) school that they have to invite the gay girl to her own prom and let her bring her own date is not the same as telling each individual student at the school taht they must hang out and socialize with the gay girl.

We can have the federally funded discussion all day long (it's unconstitutional), you're obfuscating.
#31 Apr 05 2010 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
idiggory wrote:
The problem seems to be that the "private" prom was only privately hosted, but still sponsored by the school in some way. Which means the judge's ruling on the district still applies.

I didn't get that from the news article. Is it in one of the blogs/op-ed pieces?
#32 Apr 05 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Default
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Samira wrote:
None of which applies. Again, just don't invite her to your private prom.


Which is exactly what they did. The judge mandated that she be invited to the "official" prom being planned (which I think was an overstretch, but whatever). So, a group of parents arranged a private prom for their kids and didn't invite her. I'm not sure what the uproar is about here.

Are we now saying that it's illegal for a group of people to privately arrange their own formal party and only invite people they want to that party? Really? Where's the Constitutional grounds for that? Or are we saying that you can only not fail to invite people if they fit into a set of "disadvantaged groups"? Sorry. That's just stupid.

You can't force people to invite you to their parties, can you? And you can't sue people to make them like you. The life lesson is that this course of action pretty much always backfires.
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#33 Apr 05 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I honestly don't care who you do or do not deign to hang out with. That's not my business, nor is it anyone elses business. No one is telling you to include Bruce and his gay lover to your Memorial day cook out.

But when someone insists that a high school student who only wanted to spend her prom night with the person she is in a relationship with "got what she deserved" when she was sent to a fake prom, that's bastardy at it's finest.

Reading the news articles, I get the impression that the "canceled" prom still took place at the country club. If that is the case, and it was the official gathering for the school, then I fail to see how it wasn't exactly what was "deserved" in the strictest sense of the word and the strict reading of the judges opinion (published reports, at any rate).


That's not what I got from the story at all.

What I got was that there was to be a private "prom," and they told this chick and seven other people that it was at the country club. Then they held a different prom at a different location, and there is speculation that there were school officials involved in the super secret prom that no one told the gay girl and seven other random students about.

I don't see how anyone deserves to be told that the party is at one place while they're really hosting the "real" party at a different venue. It's despicable and cruel and no one deserves that.

#34 Apr 05 2010 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
Here's an analogy that applies: it's like suing to get your job back. WTF?!? You really want to work in a place that obviously finds the idea of you working there so distasteful that they're willing to risk a lawsuit to get rid of you?!?

Morons.
#35 Apr 05 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
Which is exactly what they did. The judge mandated that she be invited to the "official" prom being planned (which I think was an overstretch, but whatever). So, a group of parents arranged a private prom for their kids and didn't invite her. I'm not sure what the uproar is about here.


The uproar is that they lied to her about where the prom was being held. Her and seven other students showed up where they thought the prom was going to be while, in reality, they held it elsewhere.

It was a cruel joke, and it was in no way deserved.

#36 Apr 05 2010 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I didn't get that from the news article. Is it in one of the blogs/op-ed pieces?


It's what I took from the articles. They state that the parents canceled the first prom because they didn't want to invite her and didn't want to be sued, which suggests that they COULD be sued, linking them to the decision on the district. Furthermore, the school made an announcement regarding the "official" prom that Constance attended, despite the fact that it was in no way hosted by the school (it was set up by parents and not on school property) which suggests that the school sponsored it.

I am assuming, based on their sponsorship of the first prom and the parents' fear regarding the first that these proms did fall firmly within the judge's decision, as the whole basis for not reinstating the first prom included the requirement she be invited to the parent-hosted one.
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#37 Apr 05 2010 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Here's an analogy that applies: it's like suing to get your job back. WTF?!? You really want to work in a place that obviously finds the idea of you working there so distasteful that they're willing to risk a lawsuit to get rid of you?!?

Morons.


How is that in any way close to what happened here...?
#38 Apr 05 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Default
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
That's not what I got from the story at all.

What I got was that there was to be a private "prom," and they told this chick and seven other people that it was at the country club. Then they held a different prom at a different location, and there is speculation that there were school officials involved in the super secret prom that no one told the gay girl and seven other random students about.

I don't see how anyone deserves to be told that the party is at one place while they're really hosting the "real" party at a different venue. It's despicable and cruel and no one deserves that.

Just so we're clear, you fall in to the overly-PC "Nanny" crowd.

According to the school, the official prom was at the country club. The canceled party was to have been partially funded by the school at a third location, and the parents demurred and had it canceled. The school announced the sanctioned prom to be held at the country club and she was invited.

No one else wanted to be there with her.

No one else wanted to hang out with her enough to tell her about another, private, party.

It's exactly what the judge ordered them to do. They did it. She is the recipient of karmic justice for trying to force people who didn't want to be around her to include here in their party plans.
#39 Apr 05 2010 at 3:01 PM Rating: Default
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Here's an analogy that applies: it's like suing to get your job back. WTF?!? You really want to work in a place that obviously finds the idea of you working there so distasteful that they're willing to risk a lawsuit to get rid of you?!?

Morons.


How is that in any way close to what happened here...?

She sued to get her prom back from a group of people who didn't want her there enough to risk a lawsuit to keep her from it.

It's easy to follow if you're remotely intelligent. Take from that what you will.
#40 Apr 05 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Here's an analogy that applies: it's like suing to get your job back. WTF?!? You really want to work in a place that obviously finds the idea of you working there so distasteful that they're willing to risk a lawsuit to get rid of you?!?

Morons.


I guess that would work when talking about the first prom, when she was suing for them to allow her to attend. But it's not the same scenario, as she doesn't really have a choice about going to that school or not (or rather, the choice is probably graduate or don't graduate) and the prom was an opportunity to have a nice night with her girlfriend and friends. She was going to be under the district's hand until she was out anyway.

With any lawsuit now, it would be for cold-hard cash. And that doesn't fall under the above analogy.
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#41 Apr 05 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
It's exactly what the judge ordered them to do. They did it. She is the recipient of karmic justice for trying to force people who didn't want to be around her to include here in their party plans.


Did the schoolchildren rise up and speak with one voice that she wasn't to come to the original prom? Some kids took her side even when the prom was canceled "because of her". I'm sure she had friends there, even if the student body at large didn't want her there. She was forcing the school board to accept her, not the kids, who one should note had no say in the matter either way. And, in fact, she was already accepted - it was her parent and attire she was forcing them to accept.
#42 Apr 05 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
idiggory wrote:
Quote:
Here's an analogy that applies: it's like suing to get your job back. WTF?!? You really want to work in a place that obviously finds the idea of you working there so distasteful that they're willing to risk a lawsuit to get rid of you?!?

Morons.


I guess that would work when talking about the first prom, when she was suing for them to allow her to attend. But it's not the same scenario, as she doesn't really have a choice about going to that school or not (or rather, the choice is probably graduate or don't graduate) and the prom was an opportunity to have a nice night with her girlfriend and friends. She was going to be under the district's hand until she was out anyway.

With any lawsuit now, it would be for cold-hard cash. And that doesn't fall under the above analogy.

Yore stoopid. The analogy applied to the first lawsuit, dumbass.
#43 Apr 05 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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There were kids I hated at my prom. I didn't feel like I had the right to keep them from being there just because I didn't like them.

[EDIT]

Which is why the majority of my post had to do with the first one?

Your analogy doesn't work anyway, because the situations aren't different. The only way it would function correctly if the entire school AND the district hated her.

Edited, Apr 5th 2010 5:10pm by idiggory
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#44 Apr 05 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
Quote:
It's exactly what the judge ordered them to do. They did it. She is the recipient of karmic justice for trying to force people who didn't want to be around her to include here in their party plans.


Did the schoolchildren rise up and speak with one voice that she wasn't to come to the original prom? Some kids took her side even when the prom was canceled "because of her". I'm sure she had friends there, even if the student body at large didn't want her there. She was forcing the school board to accept her, not the kids, who one should note had no say in the matter either way. And, in fact, she was already accepted - it was her parent and attire she was forcing them to accept.

If they'd accepted her, they likely would have mentioned the alternate affair at some point. Sorry, that dog don't hunt.
#45 Apr 05 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
Moe wrote:
According to the school, the official prom was at the country club. The canceled party was to have been partially funded by the school at a third location, and the parents demurred and had it canceled. The school announced the sanctioned prom to be held at the country club and she was invited.

No one else wanted to be there with her.

No one else wanted to hang out with her enough to tell her about another, private, party.

It's exactly what the judge ordered them to do. They did it. She is the recipient of karmic justice for trying to force people who didn't want to be around her to include here in their party plans.


From everything I read, there was no "official" prom. There were two proms set up by the parents. One which Constance was invited to and they asked the school to announce, and one that they didn't tell her about at all.

I don't care that they didn't want her at the private prom. Well, that's not true. I do care, I feel bad for the poor girl. That's disgusting. But my main beef is with them setting up two proms in an effort to trick her into showing up at a sparsley populated dance just to be cruel. That's pathetic, and I'm embarrassed that grown adults would do such a thing.

His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
She sued to get her prom back from a group of people who didn't want her there enough to risk a lawsuit to keep her from it.

It's easy to follow if you're remotely intelligent. Take from that what you will.


Yes, she sued her school. That is nothing like a job. Anyone with the smallest IQ could noodle that one out.

Take from that what you will.

Edited, Apr 5th 2010 4:11pm by Belkira
#46 Apr 05 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
idiggory wrote:
There were kids I hated at my prom. I didn't feel like I had the right to keep them from being there just because I didn't like them.

You tolerant and accepting *******, you.
#47 Apr 05 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Default
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
From everything I read, there was no "official" prom. There were two proms set up by the parents. One which Constance was invited to and they asked the school to announce, and one that they didn't tell her about at all.

lrn2reed
Quote:
Shortly thereafter, the school’s attorney announced (on Wednesday) that “the prom” was to be held at the Fulton Country Club on Friday. But yet only seven kids showed up.

Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I don't care that they didn't want her at her private prom. Well, that's not true. I do care, I feel bad for the poor girl. That's disgusting. But my main beef is with them setting up two proms in an effort to trick her into showing up at a sparsley populated dance just to be cruel. That's pathetic, and I'm embarrassed that grown adults would do such a thing.

Ok, nanny.

Belkira the Tulip wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
She sued to get her prom back from a group of people who didn't want her there enough to risk a lawsuit to keep her from it.

It's easy to follow if you're remotely intelligent. Take from that what you will.


Yes, she sued her school. That is nothing like a job. Anyone with the smallest IQ could noodle that one out.

Take from that what you will.

5w bulb, you are.
#48 Apr 05 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
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Not really either. I openly disliked them, and didn't bother associating with them at the prom (or outside of it). Lack of acceptance and tolerance may lead to right-infringement, but they aren't the cause of it. I think half my town is retarded. I'm not going to intentionally stop them from voting.
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#49 Apr 05 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
Quote:
It's exactly what the judge ordered them to do. They did it. She is the recipient of karmic justice for trying to force people who didn't want to be around her to include here in their party plans.


Did the schoolchildren rise up and speak with one voice that she wasn't to come to the original prom? Some kids took her side even when the prom was canceled "because of her". I'm sure she had friends there, even if the student body at large didn't want her there. She was forcing the school board to accept her, not the kids, who one should note had no say in the matter either way. And, in fact, she was already accepted - it was her parent and attire she was forcing them to accept.

If they'd accepted her, they likely would have mentioned the alternate affair at some point. Sorry, that dog don't hunt.


There were seven kids with her. It's not like she was universally hated. I don't personally think you have to be an idiot to want to go and do something with your friends even if there are a bunch of people there that don't want you there. Either way, your dog only comes home with a duck in his mouth if she knew she was forcing herself on a totally hostile or largely hostile (if that's enough for you) student body if then, because, again, they weren't their party plans but those of the school. They would have been forced to accept her with a dress and a guy anyway, whether they liked it or not. There are holes in what you said no matter what, is what I'm saying.
#50 Apr 05 2010 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira wrote:
But my main beef is with them setting up two proms in an effort to trick her into showing up at a sparsely populated dance just to be cruel. That's pathetic, and I'm embarrassed that grown adults would do such a thing.


Yeah, if it really did happen this way then I share your feelings. If it happened any other way, I'd be interested in hearing the other side.

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#51 Apr 05 2010 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
From everything I read, there was no "official" prom. There were two proms set up by the parents. One which Constance was invited to and they asked the school to announce, and one that they didn't tell her about at all.

lrn2reed
Quote:
Shortly thereafter, the school’s attorney announced (on Wednesday) that “the prom” was to be held at the Fulton Country Club on Friday. But yet only seven kids showed up.


Learn to read indeed. I said that the parents put it together and asked the school to announce it. That doesn't make it a school sponsored prom. The "real" prom, if you will, was the super secret prom they didn't want this chick to know about.

Moe wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I don't care that they didn't want her at her private prom. Well, that's not true. I do care, I feel bad for the poor girl. That's disgusting. But my main beef is with them setting up two proms in an effort to trick her into showing up at a sparsley populated dance just to be cruel. That's pathetic, and I'm embarrassed that grown adults would do such a thing.

Ok, nanny.


Meh. If it means I have a heart compared to some other people, you can call me "nanny" all day long. I'm not saying they should be forced to invite her to their leet prom. I'm just saying it's sad that they treated a child this way.

Edited, Apr 5th 2010 4:25pm by Belkira
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