A brief recap of the story of Phoebe Prince.
A girl immigrates from Ireland to a nice middle-class suburb in Boston, dates the HS football star, they break up, things go sour, she becomes the object of ridicule and after three months of badgering and bullying, goes home and hangs herself in a closet.
So while I think we can all agree that suicide was an extreme measure, 15 is still a child in many ways, and this girl obviously needed help. Her mother spoke to two school officials, and the bullying was common knowledge within the school, whose officials took no action.
The Northwest DA has now charged nine teens in connection with her death. While the charges of statutory rape are a bit much in my opinion (she had sex willingly in both cases), I am a little surprised that the school is not being charged at all.
Do you think the school is legally responsible in some way for Phoebe's death?
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The sad case of Phoebe PrinceFollow
I think the best way to deal with bullying of this sort is a punch to the face. A fat lip and trickle of blood is a good way to deflate one ego and boost another.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
I read about this yesterday.
If the school was aware of the abuse and didn't do anything to stop it then they should be responsible. Of course, that's all moot if they can't prove it in court (burden of proof, etc.).
If the school was aware of the abuse and didn't do anything to stop it then they should be responsible. Of course, that's all moot if they can't prove it in court (burden of proof, etc.).
"I have lost my way
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
Debalic wrote:
I think the best way to deal with bullying of this sort is a punch to the face. A fat lip and trickle of blood is a good way to deflate one ego and boost another.
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Do you think the school is legally responsible in some way for Phoebe's death?
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Yes the school should be held partly responsible.
Flea,
All it takes is beating the living sh*t out of one of them for the others to get the picture. And when I say beating the living sh*t out of I mean leaving the other person on the ground unconcsious in a pool of their own blood. If they're bigger get a bat or some other weapon to beat them with.
Quote:
She should have punched all nine? This was relentless taunting by a large group. I'm not sure your approach would have worked.
All it takes is beating the living sh*t out of one of them for the others to get the picture. And when I say beating the living sh*t out of I mean leaving the other person on the ground unconcsious in a pool of their own blood. If they're bigger get a bat or some other weapon to beat them with.
IMO, a school is responsible for student conduct, or in a different way, the conduct that occurs on their grounds, during school hours.
I hate these stories. If only teens knew how unimportant high school is in the grand scheme of things. :(
I hate these stories. If only teens knew how unimportant high school is in the grand scheme of things. :(
What's bred in the bone will not out of the flesh.
I need to look up statutory rape laws in MA. I find it odd that a 17 year old having consensual sex with a 15 year old is statutory rape, as I would think both would be classified as minors.
Wait, let me think about this...
Whew, nope. I had sex with my girlfriend when she was 17 and I was 18.
...
Aha, age of consent is 16, I guess the fact that they're within 2 years of each other doesn't matter. It's against the law to have sex with anyone under 16. That explains it... still, seems vindictive.
As for the question, is the school responsible... no idea. I think they should have followed up when allegations of bullying came through, but if they legally had responsibility to? No idea. Also, some of the stuff happened off school property, so for that, no, the school had no responsibility (legally). As terrible as it is, it seems like just another teenager who fell through the cracks of the system. You can't save everyone, sadly.
Wait, let me think about this...
Whew, nope. I had sex with my girlfriend when she was 17 and I was 18.
...
Aha, age of consent is 16, I guess the fact that they're within 2 years of each other doesn't matter. It's against the law to have sex with anyone under 16. That explains it... still, seems vindictive.
As for the question, is the school responsible... no idea. I think they should have followed up when allegations of bullying came through, but if they legally had responsibility to? No idea. Also, some of the stuff happened off school property, so for that, no, the school had no responsibility (legally). As terrible as it is, it seems like just another teenager who fell through the cracks of the system. You can't save everyone, sadly.
knoxxsouthy wrote:
Flea,
All it takes is beating the living sh*t out of one of them for the others to get the picture. And when I say beating the living sh*t out of I mean leaving the other person on the ground unconcsious in a pool of their own blood. If they're bigger get a bat or some other weapon to beat them with.
Quote:
She should have punched all nine? This was relentless taunting by a large group. I'm not sure your approach would have worked.
All it takes is beating the living sh*t out of one of them for the others to get the picture. And when I say beating the living sh*t out of I mean leaving the other person on the ground unconcsious in a pool of their own blood. If they're bigger get a bat or some other weapon to beat them with.
Yeah, there's a reasonable reaction.
"I have lost my way
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
knoxxsouthy wrote:
Flea,
All it takes is beating the living sh*t out of one of them for the others to get the picture. And when I say beating the living sh*t out of I mean leaving the other person on the ground unconcsious in a pool of their own blood. If they're bigger get a bat or some other weapon to beat them with.
Quote:
She should have punched all nine? This was relentless taunting by a large group. I'm not sure your approach would have worked.
All it takes is beating the living sh*t out of one of them for the others to get the picture. And when I say beating the living sh*t out of I mean leaving the other person on the ground unconcsious in a pool of their own blood. If they're bigger get a bat or some other weapon to beat them with.
Well, I don't think it needs to get this extreme, but one takedown can definitely change the dynamic.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Quote:
Phoebe kept walking, past the abuse, past the can, past the white picket fence, into her house. Then she walked into a closet and hanged herself. Her 12-year-old sister found her.
You would think this would give the bullies who hounded Phoebe some pause. Instead, they went on Facebook and mocked her in death.
You would think this would give the bullies who hounded Phoebe some pause. Instead, they went on Facebook and mocked her in death.
Doesn't that just figure?
You have to be impossibly tough to deal with a group of bullies. You have to be able to walk away and never, ever let them see that they're getting to you. It's really hard at that age.
Kids have a really poorly developed sense of consequences, and when that wolf pack mentality takes over they have no empathy for their victim, or intended victim. The school should have stepped in and stepped in hard.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
While the charges of statutory rape are a bit much in my opinion (she had sex willingly in both cases)
Not to muddy the waters but statutory rape laws are based on the notion that everyone else is not not allowed to have sex with someone under the age of consent. The ability to consent is removed entirely from the minor party. So a 15 year old saying its okay to have sex with her isn't a defense just like stabbing someone to death with an ice pick isn't okay just because the stabbee says "Go for it".
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
I agree that standing up for yourself can change the dynamic, but becoming a criminal and assaulting someone is a bit much for me. The school may not be legally responsible, but to not do anything is inexcusable.
Samira wrote:
Quote:
Phoebe kept walking, past the abuse, past the can, past the white picket fence, into her house. Then she walked into a closet and hanged herself. Her 12-year-old sister found her.
You would think this would give the bullies who hounded Phoebe some pause. Instead, they went on Facebook and mocked her in death.
You would think this would give the bullies who hounded Phoebe some pause. Instead, they went on Facebook and mocked her in death.
Doesn't that just figure?
You have to be impossibly tough to deal with a group of bullies. You have to be able to walk away and never, ever let them see that they're getting to you. It's really hard at that age.
Kids have a really poorly developed sense of consequences, and when that wolf pack mentality takes over they have no empathy for their victim, or intended victim. The school should have stepped in and stepped in hard.
Flea,
Throwing things at people is assault. The second someone touched this girl at school without her permission be it a bump, a thrown soda can, or whatever this girl is well within her rights to defend herself. So beating the sh*t out of her assailant would be self-defense rather than assault.
Quote:
I agree that standing up for yourself can change the dynamic, but becoming a criminal and assaulting someone is a bit much for me.
Throwing things at people is assault. The second someone touched this girl at school without her permission be it a bump, a thrown soda can, or whatever this girl is well within her rights to defend herself. So beating the sh*t out of her assailant would be self-defense rather than assault.
Jophiel wrote:
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
While the charges of statutory rape are a bit much in my opinion (she had sex willingly in both cases)
Not to muddy the waters but statutory rape laws are based on the notion that everyone else is not not allowed to have sex with someone under the age of consent. The ability to consent is removed entirely from the minor party. So a 15 year old saying its okay to have sex with her isn't a defense just like stabbing someone to death with an ice pick isn't okay just because the stabbee says "Go for it".
knoxxsouthy wrote:
Flea,
Throwing things at people is assault. The second someone touched this girl at school without her permission be it a bump, a thrown soda can, or whatever this girl is well within her rights to defend herself. So beating the sh*t out of her assailant would be self-defense rather than assault.
Quote:
I agree that standing up for yourself can change the dynamic, but becoming a criminal and assaulting someone is a bit much for me.
Throwing things at people is assault. The second someone touched this girl at school without her permission be it a bump, a thrown soda can, or whatever this girl is well within her rights to defend herself. So beating the sh*t out of her assailant would be self-defense rather than assault.
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
I agree that standing up for yourself can change the dynamic, but becoming a criminal and assaulting someone is a bit much for me.
I agree. The soda-can drive-by is taking things way beyond in-school hassling.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
knoxxsouthy wrote:
Flea,
All it takes is beating the living sh*t out of one of them for the others to get the picture. And when I say beating the living sh*t out of I mean leaving the other person on the ground unconcsious in a pool of their own blood. If they're bigger get a bat or some other weapon to beat them with.
Quote:
She should have punched all nine? This was relentless taunting by a large group. I'm not sure your approach would have worked.
All it takes is beating the living sh*t out of one of them for the others to get the picture. And when I say beating the living sh*t out of I mean leaving the other person on the ground unconcsious in a pool of their own blood. If they're bigger get a bat or some other weapon to beat them with.
And then she gets charged with criminal assault and hangs herself in a jail cell instead.
Brilliant solution.
One of my good friends in high school was bullied by a few guys. I don't know why - she wasn't repulsive or anything; they just chose her and decided to make her life a living hell.
I stood up for her, and one of them offered to kick my *** if I didn't back off.
My older brother had a quiet word with him. I found out about this years later, by the way - initially I thought he was standing up for me.
Turns out, when the guy got all chesty and said, "What? You telling me you're going to step in?" my brother told him, "No. I'm telling you I know my sister and if you push her, she will fUCking kill you."
I stood up for her, and one of them offered to kick my *** if I didn't back off.
My older brother had a quiet word with him. I found out about this years later, by the way - initially I thought he was standing up for me.
Turns out, when the guy got all chesty and said, "What? You telling me you're going to step in?" my brother told him, "No. I'm telling you I know my sister and if you push her, she will fUCking kill you." In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
I never understood why people hold children up as paragons of innocence. They're a bunch of sociopaths that practically have to have empathy beaten into them.
Debalic wrote:
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
I agree that standing up for yourself can change the dynamic, but becoming a criminal and assaulting someone is a bit much for me.
I agree. The soda-can drive-by is taking things way beyond in-school hassling.
Fun fact; this is actually considered assault. I knew a kid in high school who did this and was charged. Not sure if he was found guilty or not, though... it was a long time ago.
Sweetums wrote:
I never understood why people hold children up as paragons of innocence. They're a bunch of sociopaths that practically have to have empathy beaten into them.
What was it Pratchett said? Children's voices sound so sweet as long as you can't hear what they're actually saying.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
Sweetums wrote:
I never understood why people hold children up as paragons of innocence. They're a bunch of sociopaths that practically have to have empathy beaten into them.
What was it Pratchett said? Children's voices sound so sweet as long as you can't hear what they're actually saying.
LockeColeMA wrote:
Debalic wrote:
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
I agree that standing up for yourself can change the dynamic, but becoming a criminal and assaulting someone is a bit much for me.
I agree. The soda-can drive-by is taking things way beyond in-school hassling.
Fun fact; this is actually considered assault. I knew a kid in high school who did this and was charged. Not sure if he was found guilty or not, though... it was a long time ago.
Yeah, that was my point: the soda-can drive-by is an assault, but popping some uppity ***** in the nose between classes isn't.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
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