I guess this ends the gun debate once and for allFollow

Ironically I don't own a gun...I'm pretty good with my throwing knifes and between the sheppards and dane I think i'm pretty safe around the property. I've actually considered getting a concealed carry permit because sometimes I do have large amounts of cash on me but i'm cheap so I figured why waste the money.

But like other things the 2nd is in the constiution so if some legal citizen decides to load down their house/vehicle with AR 50's so be it. Trust me the thugs and gangsters aren't having any problems getting automatic rifles.

Yoda,



Your realize these gangsters aren't buying their weapons from the local gun shows and gun shops don't you?

These are illegal weapons being imported illegally. How would making legal weapons illegal affect this?

I recall stories of you waving a gun out the window of your car to fend off someone tailgating you. Was that someone else?

Well, I'm glad you've found something that works with the US culture to improve things for Americans. At the same time, can you see why people keep harping on the anti-gun bandwagon, when it seems to work differently for other countries over-seas? Since overseas, low homicide rates correlate with low gun ownership, progressives in the US will probably keep seeking gun control in the States? For instance, 5.6% of Australian adults legally own a gun, as against 25% of American adults (40% of American Households).

16% of Australian homicides are committed with guns as against 65% of American homicides. Australia has 1.26 homicides per 100k pop per year, as against America's 4.55 homicides per 100k pop per year. If more guns in America is really dropping the crime rate there, then that's great. But I don't think that you'll be lucky enough to have the argument go away in the US when other nations do it differently and get different results.

I guess we could all just shut up and thank the universe that we don't live in Columbia.

Country:   % homicides with firearms; 	Firearm homicide rate per 100,000 pop.  Non-firearm homicide rate per 100,000 pop; 
 
  Lastly table listed by Overall homicide rate per 100,000 pop.   
 
 
 
Qatar   	25 	0.18 	0.53 	0.71 
Singapore 	3 	0.03 	0.92 	0.95 
Denmark 	24 	0.26 	0.83 	1.09 
Germany 	40 	0.47 	0.70 	1.17 
Ireland 	24 	0.32 	1.01 	1.33 
New Zealand 	13 	0.18 	1.17 	1.36 
England & Wales 8 	0.12 	1.33 	1.45 
Spain 	        16      0.25    1.25 	1.50 
Switzerland 	37 	0.56 	0.96 	1.52 
Chile 	        11 	0.18 	1.37 	1.55 
Australia 	16 	0.31 	1.26 	1.57 
Canada  	34 	0.54 	1.04 	1.58 
Hungary 	21 	0.44 	1.61 	2.05 
Finland 	19 	0.43 	1.94 	2.19 
Slovenia 	25 	0.6 	1.81 	2.41 
Azerbaijan 	8 	0.22 	2.59 	2.81 
India   	25 	0.93 	2.04 	2.97 
Portugal 	25 	0.85 	2.45 	3.31 
Macedonia 	36 	1.28 	2.31 	3.59 
Bulgaria 	19 	0.77 	3.3 	4.07 
United States 	65 	2.97 	1.58 	4.55 
Slovakia 	45 	2.17 	2.65 	4.81 
Poland 	        7 	0.43 	5.61 	6.04 
Costa Rica 	51 	3.38 	3.19 	6.57 
Uruguay 	35 	2.52 	4.61 	7.13 
Moldova, 	5 	0.47 	8.13 	8.59 
Ukraine 	4 	0.35 	8.93 	9.27 
Belarus 	33 	3.31 	6.82 	10.13 
Estonia 	13 	1.53 	8.92 	10.45 
Latvia 	        11 	1.3 	10 	11.30 
Zimbabwe 	40 	4.75 	7.24 	12.00 
Lithuania 	18 	2.24 	10 	12.30 
Mexico 	        21 	3.7 	14.1 	17.80 
Paraguay 	38 	7.4 	12 	19.40 
Guatemala 	75 	6.97 	25.5 	25.47 
Colombia 	85 	51.8 	10.9 	62.70

Edited, Mar 29th 2010 4:03pm by Aripyanfar

I can't think of a single other country that has the right to keep and bear arms written in to its Constitution or as an amendment there to, either.

Well, what Totem posted seems to indicate that allowing concealed carry decreases crime. Although this has been thoroughly studied, the findings are inconclusive mostly because so few people who own guns in the US actually have a concealed carry permit.

After reading several of these papers lightly, I found numerous mentions of relations between guns and crime or death indicating that indeed more guns cause more crime and more death - which directly addresses what you are posting.

So what you have found elsewhere, Aripyanfar, does indeed apply to the US.

The Constitution is an outdated document based on a time when having firearms in the home made sense. That's no longer the case in the US. I don't think we have to worry about the US government oppressing it's population anytime soon so there's no reason to have a stockpile of arms to defend yourself from the ebil guberment.

Gun control probably isn't the solution for the US anymore, firearms are too prevalent in the US to remove them effectively at this point. Doesn't make it right.

Countries where gun control is working have NEVER (at least recently) been allowed to openly carry firearms. In Canada for example you have to have a Fire Arms Control license to own any kind of gun, this requires that you complete a course and pay a fee, you are also severely restricted in which type of weapons you can purchase/own/sell. This means people don't just go out a buy a gun for the sake of owning one, they buy a gun because they want to hunt and they've been trained in safe use and storage. Not perfect, but we don't have the gun crime issues you have in the US because it's just not that easy to get a gun.

Edited, Mar 29th 2010 4:39pm by Yodabunny

Parole violation.

Not really accurate though. The volume of papers written by those in a profession historically opposed to lax gun control laws overwhelmingly supports stiffer gun control. Shocking. I know...

It never ceases to amaze me the vast difference between the world as it actually is and the world as it appears when described in a research paper.

Wait! Let me get this straight. The need to use a firearm to protect one's home from criminals and potentially protect one from an authoritarian government is gone, but the need to hunt to put food on your table is as strong as ever?

Really? That's the direction you're going with this?

It might be futile, but I can't help it.

Can you clarify this one?

False. It discriminates against those that actually make a taxable income.

Slavery is a form of non-discriminate taxation!