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Health Care Bill Passes 219-210Follow

#102 Mar 22 2010 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
Elinda,

Quote:
Yes, we're free to pay outrageous premiums and to then be grossly restricted on our choices, or to go without insurance? I don't like your brand of freedom - it costs too much and is poorly distributed.


Yes we know commies like to distribute freedom to whomever they like.

I don't know about you but I'd like a govn where every citizen is treated equally under the LAW and not a false sense of what may be fair.



Sweetums,

Quote:
My point is that it's illegal.


So is speeding. So are a lot of things. If the govn issues laws that they can't enforce all they're doing it creating more of a burden on those trying to live legally. Obamacare is going to make a lot more criminals that's for sure.


#103 Mar 22 2010 at 11:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
creating more of a burden on those trying to live legally.


Keyword.
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#104 Mar 22 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Obamacare is going to make a lot more criminals that's for sure.


Not as many criminals as the War On Drugs made.
#105 Mar 22 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
So, your choice to live in Tennessee, your choice not to get a better job, your choice not to have your husband get a better job, your choices... (see where I'm going with this?) effect your care so you'd prefer it get taken out of my pocket in increased taxes, fines and fees?

Gotcha.


It is my choice to live in Tennessee. And it's not a bad choice, as far as health insurance goes. They can't deny me coverage because of a pre-existing condition. Other places, they would just outright deny me.

It isn't really my choice not to get a "better" job. Though, that's amusing, because my job is pretty damn good. I make good money, and have good perks (i.e. time off, etc.). I did have health insurance through my job, but it being a small business (and small business plans are just as bad as individual plans, as far as cost) they asked me to consider switching to my husband's plan through his place of work. Which I did, and they compensated me for. But I digress. One can't simply snap ones fingers and "get" a better job. It is not my (nor my husband's) choice to do so.

The problem is, there aren't that many choices available. I've made the best possible choices (in regards to health insurance) that I possibly could. And yet, none of the choices are all that good. It's like saying, "You can choose between cancer and AIDS. Good luck."

His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Based on your comments, I can see where you think it's luck.


It is luck. You are lucky that your job offers health insurance. Not every place can afford to do so.

His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
I have a chronically ill wife and a two children who were born with quite serious medical conditions. I do receive insurance through my job. It's a benefit. Someday you should look that up.


I'm sorry to hear about your wife, I truly am. However, I get benefits from my job. You really don't know me, Moe. I realize that my situation doesn't fit perfectly in your rose tinted world, but such is life.
#106 Mar 22 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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We were just recently given the freedom of choice to have a health assessment done for a discount on our premiums or suffer, yet another, rise in premiums.

The assessment is only a questionnaire at this point - mostly about lifestyle.

It's kind of odd though.
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#107 Mar 22 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hey Varus. Next month I'm getting free health care, free housing, free food, all the ammo I can shoot, and I'm getting paid for it. For a year. All tax free. And you're paying for it.

Thought you'd like to know.

Edited, Mar 22nd 2010 1:45pm by lolgaxe
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#108 Mar 22 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Hey Varus. Next month I'm getting free health care, free housing, free food, all the ammo I can shoot, and I'm getting paid for it. For a year. All tax free. And you're paying for it.

Thought you'd like to know.

Semper Fi!
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#109 Mar 22 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Hey Varus. Next month I'm getting free health care, free housing, free food, all the ammo I can shoot, and I'm getting paid for it. For a year. All tax free. And you're paying for it.

Thought you'd like to know.

Edited, Mar 22nd 2010 1:45pm by lolgaxe
You're not really a Marine. You don't play basketball.
#110REDACTED, Posted: Mar 22 2010 at 12:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't need to know you. All I need to do is read what you write. You choose to work for a company that doesn't pay your medical. You choose a "pretty damn good" job over one that would actually meet your needs. You didn't come out and complain about anything, per se, in response to my original comments, but the fact that you felt the need to share your circumstance indicates to me that you're unhappy with the choices available to you (or that you have to make them to begin with), and happy with the "reform" eliminating some of that necessity. I don't have to know you to lump you squarely in to a group of people who cares more about getting something you're not entitled to than with taking responsibility for your own life and staying out of my pocket.
#111 Mar 22 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Default
lolgaxe wrote:
Hey Varus. Next month I'm getting free health care, free housing, free food, all the ammo I can shoot, and I'm getting paid for it. For a year. All tax free. And you're paying for it.

Thought you'd like to know.

It's hardly free, and if you're the sort of soldier who won't be crying about doing your job, thank you. I'd happily pay you more if so much of my tax dollar wasn't going to entitlement programs.
#112 Mar 22 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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@belk, we're on page three, just ignore moe. Smiley: grin

It's absurd to insist that people can just pick and choose a job.
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#113 Mar 22 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
Xsarus,

Quote:
It's absurd to insist that people can just pick and choose a job.


What's absurd is thinking businesses should have to pay for their employees healthcare.



lolgaxe,

Quote:
Hey Varus. Next month I'm getting free health care, free housing, free food, all the ammo I can shoot, and I'm getting paid for it. For a year. All tax free. And you're paying for it.


If you're in the military you're the only class I think I should be paying more of my taxes to.

Just wait until obamacare starts cutting the military to pay for itself.
#114 Mar 22 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
I don't need to know you. All I need to do is read what you write. You choose to work for a company that doesn't pay your medical. You choose a "pretty damn good" job over one that would actually meet your needs. You didn't come out and complain about anything, per se, in response to my original comments, but the fact that you felt the need to share your circumstance indicates to me that you're unhappy with the choices available to you (or that you have to make them to begin with), and happy with the "reform" eliminating some of that necessity. I don't have to know you to lump you squarely in to a group of people who cares more about getting something you're not entitled to than with taking responsibility for your own life and staying out of my pocket.

I worked hard to get where I am, to be able to provide for my needs and the needs of my family. People who support this bill, this president, this "change" in America are supporting the effort to impinge on that. F'uck civil discourse. At this point I wouldn't **** on the lot of you to put out a fire.


On the contrary. I chose a job that is pretty damn good, and met my needs at the time. They would continue to give me medical coverage, just not as good as my husband's insurance. Therefore, I made the choice to switch to his insurance.

I am not particularly happy with the choices presented to me, no. And I am ecstatic that these choices will (hopefully) be made better. Not just for me, but for other people in the same and far, far worse circumstances than I am. I am not unhappy with the choices I have made, but I don't really like the fact that my choices are limited because I was born with a disease that manifested in my early twenties. I am very, very entitled to get affordable healthcare. If that has to come out of your pocket, then so be it. But no worries, Moe. My issues won't really effect you. I make good money, I can take care of myself. But it's nice to know that some of the elected officials in this country have my back, and understand that I should not be penalized for a genetic disorder.

I also worked hard to get where I am, Moe. I am also able to provide for my needs and the needs of my family. But, here's where we differ. I have a heart and would like to see that other people are afforded the same right to life that you and I are able to pay for. I don't think that the right to be healthy should depend on your tax bracket.

And I have a feeling that you would put us out if we were on fire. Otherwise, you might have to pay the doctors bills when we end up in the ER and can't afford insurance to pay for the bill. Smiley: grin
#115 Mar 22 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
Sir Xsarus wrote:
@belk, we're on page three, just ignore moe. Smiley: grin


That's not nearly as fun. Smiley: grin
#116 Mar 22 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Default
Sir Xsarus wrote:
@belk, we're on page three, just ignore moe. Smiley: grin

The smartest thing said so far in this thread.
Sir Xsarus wrote:
It's absurd to insist that people can just pick and choose a job.

Followed immediately by one of the dumbest (If Varus could avoid the thread it'd be closer to the top).
#117 Mar 22 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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10,601 posts
Quote:
What's absurd is thinking businesses should have to pay for their employees healthcare.
Not particularly. I mean, they're going to pay for it one way or another, as a job has to pay enough to cover your costs, or you're better off not working. So either they'll just pay you more or they'll cover some or all of the healthcare costs and pay you less.

One of the reasons companies doing this is a good thing is that it is far more effective to cover a large group, as the individual risks can be washed out. I agree with you though, I don't think companies should necessarily be forced to provide health coverage, but there then needs to be affordable options for individuals or families to pursue. Without the leverage of a large group that's a problem.

The other problem is that companies dodge giving workers health benefits by employing them for say 39 hours instead of 40. That's pretty slimy, and I have no problem with regulation around this.

Your best bet is just to nationalize the whole thing and join most of the rest of the world in the present.
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#118 Mar 22 2010 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
It's absurd to insist that people can just pick and choose a job.

Followed immediately by one of the dumbest (If Varus could avoid the thread it'd be closer to the top).
People have lots of choices, but they also have lots of constraints, and to simply insist that someone has the ability to go out and find a job that covered their health care costs better is naive and puts that sentence well atop mine in terms of dumbest posts. Of course you were going for that. Smiley: grin
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#119 Mar 22 2010 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
I worked hard to get where I am, to be able to provide for my needs and the needs of my family.

Most of the people here have worked hard to take care of their families, homes, etc. That's hardly exclusive to supporting an expansion of health care.
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#120 Mar 22 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Default
Sir Xsarus wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
It's absurd to insist that people can just pick and choose a job.

Followed immediately by one of the dumbest (If Varus could avoid the thread it'd be closer to the top).
People have lots of choices, but they also have lots of constraints, and to simply insist that someone has the ability to go out and find a job that covered their health care costs better is naive and puts that sentence well atop mine in terms of dumbest posts. Of course you were going for that. Smiley: grin

Maybe.
#121 Mar 22 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
Tulip,


Quote:
But, here's where we differ. I have a heart and would like to see that other people are afforded the same right to life that you and I are able to pay for. I don't think that the right to be healthy should depend on your tax bracket.


And I don't think my property should be confiscated at the point of a gun to ensure smoking, drinking, and generally fat f*cks receive medical coverage.





#122 Mar 22 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Default
Jophiel wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
I worked hard to get where I am, to be able to provide for my needs and the needs of my family.

Most of the people here have worked hard to take care of their families, homes, etc. That's hardly exclusive to supporting an expansion of health care.

It is to supporting this bill, which isn't an expansion of health care.

Or they work hard and are t3h dumbz, which is entirely possible. Apparently there are white landscapers out there.
#123 Mar 22 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
confiscated at the point of a gun

Tee-hee.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#124 Mar 22 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
Tulip,


Quote:
But, here's where we differ. I have a heart and would like to see that other people are afforded the same right to life that you and I are able to pay for. I don't think that the right to be healthy should depend on your tax bracket.


And I don't think my property should be confiscated at the point of a gun to ensure smoking, drinking, and generally fat f*cks receive medical coverage.







If I had the power to do so I would mandate this very thing.

Only with regards to you, though.

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#125 Mar 22 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
knoxxsouthy wrote:
And I don't think my property should be confiscated at the point of a gun to ensure

Sh;t
#126 Mar 22 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
knoxxsouthy wrote:
Tulip,


Quote:
But, here's where we differ. I have a heart and would like to see that other people are afforded the same right to life that you and I are able to pay for. I don't think that the right to be healthy should depend on your tax bracket.


And I don't think my property should be confiscated at the point of a gun to ensure smoking, drinking, and generally fat f*cks receive medical coverage.


Misunderstood "property." Smiley: lol Regardless, this makes no sense.

Edited, Mar 22nd 2010 1:55pm by Belkira
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