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Rape sucksFollow

#127 Mar 15 2010 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Sweetums wrote:
Uh, if we're going to trim the sex offender database, we may as well trim the ones that aren't actually harming people... like drunk guys taking a ****, et al.


That's absolutely a good starting point.

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Not someone who deems it their right to forcibly coerce a woman into having sex.


/Shrug. The guy in the OP is at worst the sexual equivalent of the school bully. And just like the school bully, he's usually afraid to actual go through with the threats he makes. He counts on being able to find suckers to give him what he wants just by threatening them. He doesn't have to actually do anything, so he figures it's ok. And since it works, he keeps doing it.

A-hole? Absolutely. Dangerous sexual predator who needs to be tracked in a national database? Not really. People like that teach us life lessons. And here's the deal. The girl in the OP will get to live to learn that lesson, wont she?


It's funny (Ok, not really), but I was talking to a friend of mine just this weekend. She brought up a situation when she was a teen that was somewhat similar to the OPs. She went on a date with a guy. After the date, he dropped her off at her house and invited himself in (her parents were out of town). By her own words she was "young and dumb". She let him come in. She let him do far more than she wanted to. At the end of it, she'd lost her virginity to some guy she didn't really like that much and despite not wanting to do it, she either couldn't or wouldn't stop him. She's told me this story many times over the years. It does bother her deeply. She honestly can't remember if she told him to stop or not. And she did what many girls will do in that situation: go along with it. And for a whole bunch of reasons. Partly fear. Partly not wanting to look like a tease once things had progressed that far. But mostly (and this is the really bad thing) the belief that if she appears to go along with it, then only she will know that deep inside she didn't want to.

The point is that even knowing all this she didn't ever accuse him of rape. Not because she was afraid of him, or of revealing what happened, but because she realized that she went along with it. She recognized that he didn't actually force her. He just put her in a situation where she felt extremely pressured.

The second point is that she said the same thing I just did. That what she went through was not even vaguely as bad as the sort of "serial rapist in the bushes" scenario I outlined earlier. For her, part of getting past that issue was to *not* think of herself as a victim. She realized that she made choices that day. They may not have lead to an outcome she wanted, but she did make them. She realized that she could sit around being angry at him for the rest of her life, or she could own the degree of responsibility she bore for what happened, accept it, and move on.


I'll point out that for those who are violently raped by a stranger, the grieving process is the exact opposite. You have to accept that there was nothing you could have done to avoid what happened, and that you bear *no* responsibility. But that very reality makes the process of healing that much harder. You can learn how not to get into the kinds of situations that the OP or my friend found herself in. But you can't learn how to avoid something you had no fault in. That's why not just on a physical level, but a psychological level that is much much worse for the victim. There's just no way to move past it. You just have to hope that over time, you'll forget. Well, enough not to be scared all the time.


Those two situations are not even remotely related. They really aren't.
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#128 Mar 15 2010 at 10:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Majivo wrote:
My god, are you completely unaware of the concept of empathy?


Empathy does not mean that we treat all levels of painful experiences identically. If you cut yourself on a pocketknife and I cut my hand off with a circular saw, we both cut ourselves, and I can certainly empathize with your pain, but no one in their right mind would suggest that our experiences were equivalent. Each situation is what it is. Treating it as it is instead of insisting on treating it like it's something else does not mean I don't empathize. It just means I'm being accurate and fair.

Majivo wrote:
Do you really think that women who were beaten by their rapists will look at a date-rape victim and go "quit whining and go without justice, you prissy *****"?


Yes. I do. Because for women who have gone through the horror of a violent rape by a stranger, to hear someone calling the kind of situation the OP was in by the same word and insisting that it be treated with the same seriousness is like a slap in the face. In exactly the way the guys at the "cut our hands off with a circular saw" support group would be annoyed at the guy who just sliced a finger with a pocketknife showing up. Sure. They'll put up with him and let him share his grief and pain at the minor cut he got. But you can pretty much bet that every single one of them is thinking "WTF?".


EDIT: Oh. And I'm not saying "go without justice". I'm saying "let's apply the justice for the actual crime committed instead of trying to piggy pack this one onto the other much more serious act". Because what's happening is that as we insist that both must be treated the same legally, the date-rapist is being treated more harshly, and the rapists are being treated less so. Which was more or less the exact point I started out with...

Edited, Mar 15th 2010 8:59pm by gbaji
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#129 Mar 15 2010 at 11:05 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Empathy does not mean that we treat all levels of painful experiences identically. If you cut yourself on a pocketknife and I cut my hand off with a circular saw, we both cut ourselves, and I can certainly empathize with your pain, but no one in their right mind would suggest that our experiences were equivalent. Each situation is what it is. Treating it as it is instead of insisting on treating it like it's something else does not mean I don't empathize. It just means I'm being accurate and fair.

Yeah, except in this analogy, I cut my hand off with a circular saw up to the wrist, and you lost your hand plus another couple of inches. We're both horribly impaired and, in the rape analogy, psychologically scarred. As for the legal penalties, that's why we tack on assault, attempted murder, etc. to rapists who beat the **** out of their victims, and prosecute the date-rapists just for rape.
#130 Mar 15 2010 at 11:37 PM Rating: Good
LockeColeMA wrote:
They are on an academic team together, and apparently almost every time they had a meeting, he would somehow get her alone and rape her. Tears, pleading, did not stop him. And apparently when she threatened to tell the truth to people, he vowed to beat the crap out of her; and told her about other girls he had already beaten.


The bolded part from Locke's OP is the main difference between what his friend experienced, and what your friend experienced gbaji. I feel for your friend, but if she didn't give the guy some sort of indication that she didn't want to have sex with him, it wasn't rape. Locke's friend clearly told the guy she didn't want to sleep with him, and he went ahead and raped her anyways.
#131 Mar 16 2010 at 12:08 AM Rating: Good
Gbaji- Always looking out for the rapists.

/golf clap
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#132 Mar 16 2010 at 12:21 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:

Yes. I do. Because for women who have gone through the horror of a violent rape by a stranger, to hear someone calling the kind of situation the OP was in by the same word and insisting that it be treated with the same seriousness is like a slap in the face. In exactly the way the guys at the "cut our hands off with a circular saw" support group would be annoyed at the guy who just sliced a finger with a pocketknife showing up. Sure. They'll put up with him and let him share his grief and pain at the minor cut he got. But you can pretty much bet that every single one of them is thinking "WTF?".
He's at the wrong support group in a literal sense, but I guess you'd be the type to enjoy the narcissistic game of "oh god i was hurt worser!!!!"

Careful, though, somehow someone else is always worse off.
#133 Mar 16 2010 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Is anyone seriously arguing that the situation in the OP is "just as bad" as someone jumping out of the bushes, dragging you away from a path, beating you, raping you, and then killing you? Is it even as bad as luring a girl into your apartment, beating her, raping her, and then trying to kill her, but she manages to survive and get away? Cause that's what he was originally charged with. Everything from police investigative resources, to legal crime definitions, to sentencing, to parole is affected when we follow that stupid stupid idea. When will we wake up to the reality that there really are significant differences between those two sorts of crimes and we do a complete disservice to the victims of the latter when we insist on treating the former as though it's "just as bad".

It's not. It's not even close.


I imagine if you're the woman being raped, it doesn't really matter which situation you're in.


Did you seriously just write that? BS. Bull Fucking shit. Women who have been raped in a situation similar to the one I wrote about (assuming of course that they weren't actually killed and dumped in some bushes) are pretty darn likely to look at the situation in the OP and think that she's a whiny ***** who doesn't really know what being raped is like. And they'd be right.


Thanks for telling me, a woman, how I'd feel in ANY rape situation. Whatever would I do without you.
#134 Mar 16 2010 at 7:14 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Women who have been raped in a situation similar to the one I wrote about (assuming of course that they weren't actually killed and dumped in some bushes) are pretty darn likely to look at the situation in the OP and think that she's a whiny ***** who doesn't really know what being raped is like. And they'd be right.


Only a sad, shallow, histrionic emotional cripple of a woman would look at ANY other woman who had been through ANY rape and say ANY similar thing.

You've reached a new low, here, pal.

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#135 Mar 16 2010 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
Samira wrote:
Only a sad, shallow, histrionic emotional cripple of a woman ...

So you're saying the pool of eligible women is sizable?
#136 Mar 16 2010 at 7:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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I bet those women in Africa who get raped and then their arms hacked off by machetes would look at Gbaji's beaten victims and point and say "You weren't REALLY raped!"

Well, they would if they had arms. Maybe those women who were beaten should get the fuck over themselves and stop pretending that they were really raped.

Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Mar 16th 2010 7:26am by Jophiel
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#137 Mar 16 2010 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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Ah gbaji. Spare me your insights into the minds of women.
#138 Mar 16 2010 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
Wow. I don't think I could even begin to try to continue this discussion with gbaji at this point. I mean, I knew he was a bit off on other subjects, but damn...
#139 Mar 16 2010 at 8:31 AM Rating: Excellent
Fervently as gbaji defends the date-rapists right to rape, I can only assume they are being considered a legitimate voting bloc by the GOP this cycle.

Beautiful work, dude, exceptionally tenuous grip on reality. You make me truly believe you've raped a woman or two in your time. The kind of denial you're operating from suggests you've probably been victimized in the past yourself. Did you lead your uncle on or something? Is that what you think? It wasn't your fault man. He was more powerful than you; there was nothing you could have done.
#140 Mar 16 2010 at 9:01 AM Rating: Excellent
Barkingturtle wrote:
Fervently as gbaji defends the date-rapists right to rape, I can only assume they are being considered a legitimate voting bloc by the GOP this cycle.

Beautiful work, dude, exceptionally tenuous grip on reality. You make me truly believe you've raped a woman or two in your time. The kind of denial you're operating from suggests you've probably been victimized in the past yourself. Did you lead your uncle on or something? Is that what you think? It wasn't your fault man. He was more powerful than you; there was nothing you could have done.

Dude, seriously, it's not rape if she lives. Get it straight.
#141 Mar 16 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
I bet he sent them an e-mail & their heads exploded.
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#142 Mar 16 2010 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Barkingturtle wrote:
Fervently as gbaji defends the date-rapists right to rape, I can only assume they are being considered a legitimate voting bloc by the GOP this cycle.

Beautiful work, dude, exceptionally tenuous grip on reality. You make me truly believe you've raped a woman or two in your time. The kind of denial you're operating from suggests you've probably been victimized in the past yourself. Did you lead your uncle on or something? Is that what you think? It wasn't your fault man. He was more powerful than you; there was nothing you could have done.

Dude, seriously, it's not rape if she lives. Get it straight.
YOU get it straight. You can't get raped without a ******.
#143 Mar 16 2010 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Barkingturtle wrote:
Fervently as gbaji defends the date-rapists right to rape, I can only assume they are being considered a legitimate voting bloc by the GOP this cycle.

Beautiful work, dude, exceptionally tenuous grip on reality. You make me truly believe you've raped a woman or two in your time. The kind of denial you're operating from suggests you've probably been victimized in the past yourself. Did you lead your uncle on or something? Is that what you think? It wasn't your fault man. He was more powerful than you; there was nothing you could have done.

Dude, seriously, it's not rape if she lives. Get it straight.
YOU get it straight. You can't get raped without a ******.

If I **** out of mine, midoinitwrng?
#144 Mar 16 2010 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Barkingturtle wrote:
Fervently as gbaji defends the date-rapists right to rape, I can only assume they are being considered a legitimate voting bloc by the GOP this cycle.

Beautiful work, dude, exceptionally tenuous grip on reality. You make me truly believe you've raped a woman or two in your time. The kind of denial you're operating from suggests you've probably been victimized in the past yourself. Did you lead your uncle on or something? Is that what you think? It wasn't your fault man. He was more powerful than you; there was nothing you could have done.

Dude, seriously, it's not rape if she lives. Get it straight.
YOU get it straight. You can't get raped without a ******.

If I **** out of mine, midoinitwrng?
Your ****** is an "outie", so no.
#145 Mar 16 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
we automatically lump a whole lot of less violent guys in with the truly horrible ones.

<snip>

Because the system set up to track guys like that is overwhelmed with tracking guys convicted in cases like the one in the OP. Guys with a low chance of re-offending, a low chance of violently attacking a random woman on the street, and a very very low chance of killing a victim in the future.


And then from the OP...

Quote:
Tears, pleading, did not stop him. And apparently when she threatened to tell the truth to people, he vowed to beat the crap out of her; and told her about other girls he had already beaten.


Yeah, gbaji. Sounds like the guy in the OP is a real pacifistic pussycat with a low probability of re-offending and doesn't belong in prison with the "real" rapists. He's just confused and misunderstood, amirite?

Unbelievable. You really are a complete and utter douchebag.
#146 Mar 17 2010 at 12:08 AM Rating: Default
Wow so the moral to the story is when a woman says the word rape the guy is automatically guilty and should be sentenced to life.

Anyone who reads the OP and does not see the story has more holes in it than a giant block of Swiss cheese is just not thinking with their heads. It is really easy to get emotionally involved with a story and make an emotional judgment.

I am all for very strict penalties for all violent criminals, I just can not buy into the original story. I do a lot better job avoiding people who are mildly annoying that this girl did trying to avoid her her supposed rapist.

Edited, Mar 17th 2010 2:09am by Klagoth
#147 Mar 17 2010 at 2:14 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
Wow so the moral to the story is when a woman says the word rape the guy is automatically guilty and should be sentenced to life.


Is that what you got out of it? Really?

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Anyone who reads the OP and does not see the story has more holes in it than a giant block of Swiss cheese is just not thinking with their heads.


We're getting a 2nd hand story. Does not mean that she wasn't raped, even if previous encounters with this guy were consensual.

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I am all for very strict penalties for all violent criminals, I just can not buy into the original story.


Noted.
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I do a lot better job avoiding people who are mildly annoying than this girl does trying to avoid her her supposed rapist.


And...even after I finally wrapped my head around what you meant to say, I have no earthly clue how this pertains to the OP, or why I should care about this useless bit of baseless information.

Also, GFY.
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"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


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