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So, the sins of the mothersFollow

#27 Mar 10 2010 at 11:38 PM Rating: Good
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My knee-Jerk reaction, having not read the article at all, is that some old busy body in the congregation got wind of two women living together and made an issue of it. The Catholic church will do pretty darn much anything to keep parishioners happy. I find it hard to believe that anyone would bring this kind of trouble on themselves and their family. It's pretty obvious the old goat must have seen them in a car together or at a parent-teacher conference and then followed them home and peeped in the windows.
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#28 Mar 10 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
my knee-jerk reaction

Given your track record, you should probably stop right there.
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#29 Mar 10 2010 at 11:50 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
Don't know anything more about the issue than what's in the article, but my knee-jerk reaction is that the lesbian couple must have made their relationship or marriage or whatever an issue publicly in order for this to happen. Catholic diocese are usually pretty darn willing to look the other way for a host of things that are technical violations of faith. It's hard for me to believe that this happened just because two women lived together and sent their kids to the school. They had to have done something like standing up in a parent teacher meeting and insisting that curriculum changes be made to account for their marriage, or protested some anti-gay aspects of the school, or something else equally blatant.

Seriously. If you're looking for a religion that goes out of it's way to find "sinners" to punish and whatnot, the Catholic is pretty much the last one on the list I'd go after...


All of those are excellent reasons for punishing the child... Smiley: rolleyes
#30 Mar 11 2010 at 1:11 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
You... you have arthritic EYES?

That has to be the lamest (no pun intended) thing I've ever heard.



Is it possible he actually meant to write "arteritis?" Because Mr. Ambrya's grandmother has that, and it took me forever to understand what the family was talking about because everyone kept calling it arthritis. It has also affected her vision and requirs steroid treatment, though she is pushing 90, so it's been rough on her. The arteritis has nearly cost her all her eyesight, and the prednisone treatments have resulted in diabetes and a whole bunch of other problems.
#31 Mar 11 2010 at 5:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
Samira wrote:
Holy sh*t, what did you do?

Apparently I suffer from ankylosing spondylitis which manifests itself as recurrent arthritis in different locations; my eye, my knees, my lower back, my shoulders. When it hits my eye (every 26 months or so) I have to keep it dilated for a week and use steroidal drops.

That, or it's syphilis and I will soon go insane.

*sigh*


Gingereye


Edited, Mar 11th 2010 5:51am by Atomicflea
#32 Mar 11 2010 at 6:39 AM Rating: Excellent
I can't wrap my head around why a non-catholic lesbian couple would want their child to attend a catholic school. The school's teachings certainly go against the couple's personal beliefs.

Sure, it might be a better school than the public one, but if they're willing to pay to send their child to Catholic school I'm sure they can pay to send their kid to a different private one as well.

The school is actually taking the more practical approach here by saying, "Listen, lesbians. It's not in your best interest for you to pay us to teach your kid, among other things, that your relationship is sinful in the eyes of the church."
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#33 Mar 11 2010 at 6:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Many, many non-Catholics send their kids to Catholic schools, whether your head stretches to accommodate that fact or not.

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#34 Mar 11 2010 at 6:51 AM Rating: Good
I spent a year in parochial school hell, and I have to say no big loss. I'd have preferred going to school in Watts to Catholic school. I gotta say, though, the Catholic school kids always had the best white drugs.
#35 Mar 11 2010 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Big deal; find another school.

Of course, they won't; they'd much prefer to make a scene out of it. I don't really feel bad for the kids, because honestly, they probably don't give two ***** about this situation.

Near where I live, there are schools that only enroll females, or only enroll people with X percentage of Hawaiian blood, etc. They can make pretty much any retarded rule that they want on who gets in. I don't particularly think it's right to do that, but I think I'm just desensitized to this kind of thing by now. Bottom line, it's not like it's hard to find another school.
#36 Mar 11 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
Fynlar wrote:
I don't really feel bad for the kids, because honestly, they probably don't give two sh*ts about this situation.


Really? You don't think that a kid would be stressed out to have to start at a new school and make new friends?

Having been that kid, I can tell you, I certainly gave two *****. I gave my parents hell for moving us when I was about to start middle school with all of my friends. The kids I'd grown up with. I hated starting at a new school.
#37 Mar 11 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Fynlar wrote:
Big deal; find another school.

Of course, they won't; they'd much prefer to make a scene out of it. I don't really feel bad for the kids, because honestly, they probably don't give two sh*ts about this situation.

Near where I live, there are schools that only enroll females, or only enroll people with X percentage of Hawaiian blood, etc. They can make pretty much any retarded rule that they want on who gets in. I don't particularly think it's right to do that, but I think I'm just desensitized to this kind of thing by now. Bottom line, it's not like it's hard to find another school.


Couple of points here.

I don't really disagree with your premise that they can find another school - obviously they'll have to; but does it occur to you that they might have made, for example, a home purchasing decision based on being close to this school?

Kids I tend to agree with because as I said before they're quite young and if they're going to be uprooted this is probably optimal timing.

Your being desensitized doesn't obviate the problem, frankly. As to whether it's difficult finding another school, neither of us knows that, given their circumstances. Maybe the public schools near them are bad, or violent.
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#38 Mar 11 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
I don't really feel bad for the kids, because honestly, they probably don't give two sh*ts about this situation.


Really? You don't think that a kid would be stressed out to have to start at a new school and make new friends?

Having been that kid, I can tell you, I certainly gave two sh*ts. I gave my parents hell for moving us when I was about to start middle school with all of my friends. The kids I'd grown up with. I hated starting at a new school.


This was part of my problem with Catholic school. I went to one school K-5, and all of the kids I knew from grade school moved on to the same middle school three blocks away. My parents got divorced the end of my 5th grade year, so my dad had end-all be-all decision making suddenly and plopped me into a completely new school, uniformed, my first day of middle school. We were poor and on tuition assistance, as were a few others at the school, but the school wasn't that wealthy, anyway. The church always had more money than the school, and is always begging for money to this day, but I really felt a limit to their resources there. One hallway, 6 teachers for the entire middle school, two classes in each grade - we'd just rotate teachers down the hallway throughout the day. For three years. Narrow-minded fail teachers.

I really felt the hurt of not being able to go to a large, public school. My dad thought he was "sheltering" me. He wasn't. The kids at that Catholic school on my first day of middle school shocked me. They were gruff, crude, and some of them were already sexually active - of course, that shocked me, because no one I had ever known before my age had been sexually active. At 12. Speaking of girls who are perpetual victims...

Oh well. I know that all schools and experiences are different, but I learned the hard stereotype of "Catholic school" kids. Didn't help that 80% of the school's population was Italian-American. (I am I thank god all the time that I didn't inherit my mother's big mouth.)

All that on top of being an awkward nerd, bored with school, and being tormented endlessly for not having name-brand clothing when I could wear what I wanted, made my Catholic school experience fairly miserable. However, I get that I am a unique snowflake. I can't say what's best for anyone else.
#39 Mar 11 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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My mom use to tell us of how all the girls at her school were having sex behind the breachers.

My older sisters and brother went to Catholic schools in Chicago and then Pittsburgh. When I was old enough to start school, she had enough of keeping their uniforms clean and press for school and sent me to public school for kindergarten.

Then we moved to VA, where they wouldn't let me start first grade at the age of five. My birthday is Dec 2, which is often the cut off date for many school systems. Fairfax County didn't have kindergarten back then and my mom wasn't going to have me stay home for a year until I could go to school again, so enrolled me into the parish school. Most of the kids in my neighborhood went their for kindergarten and like me were sent to the public school the next year. Thankfully for my mom they didn't make us in kindergarten wear uniforms.

It was so unlike the kindergarten I went to the year before. We each had to sit at our desks and work on our handwriting in our composition books. Kind of like a transition from the story and nap times of my first year to the more structure years of reading writing and math.

Of course though she would never send any of us to a Catholic school again, we did have to go to CDC every Saturday for years.



Edited, Mar 11th 2010 11:32am by ElneClare
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#40 Mar 11 2010 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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Ugh. CDC CCD. Gotta stay away from this thread now because it is bringing up long-buried Catholic traumas.

edit: So long buried I couldn't tell BT what it stood for, and had to look it up. After several pages of Google the correction hit me. I know they call it different things, but for the uninformed, it's basically what Catholics do for Sunday school, for the kids who don't get the Catholic doctrine in their daily classes at school. Heathen children we were.

Edited, Mar 11th 2010 11:05am by Guenny
#41 Mar 11 2010 at 11:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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I assume that means Communion classes, and not Center for Disease Control.

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#42 Mar 11 2010 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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Samira, stealing my jokes before I make them.
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#43 Mar 11 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah. I googled it and thought "Er, wrong acronym." Oh well. I should have known my brain would come out jumbled after an ElneClare post.

Edited, Mar 11th 2010 11:08am by Guenny
#44 Mar 11 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Ambrya wrote:
Samira wrote:
You... you have arthritic EYES?

That has to be the lamest (no pun intended) thing I've ever heard.

Is it possible he actually meant to write "arteritis?" Because Mr. Ambrya's grandmother has that, and it took me forever to understand what the family was talking about because everyone kept calling it arthritis. It has also affected her vision and requirs steroid treatment, though she is pushing 90, so it's been rough on her. The arteritis has nearly cost her all her eyesight, and the prednisone treatments have resulted in diabetes and a whole bunch of other problems.

No, she's right; it's arthritis. In the eye, it's called iritis, or uveitis.
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#45 Mar 11 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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CCD Confraternity of Christian Doctrine. aka religious ed. I actually taught it for a few years.

Why send you children to Catholic School? Because according to a recent article in the Baltimore Sun, graduates earn more money. Because the parents like the structure and discipline of the school. Because it is not open to the general public.

I for one don't have a problem with the schools decision. It is a private institution. Do I wish both would change YOU BET!
This is along the same lines of Bishops stating that Catholic Politicians who are pro abortion rights are wrong in going to Communion.
#46 Mar 11 2010 at 9:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
I don't really feel bad for the kids, because honestly, they probably don't give two sh*ts about this situation.


Really? You don't think that a kid would be stressed out to have to start at a new school and make new friends?


The oldest was in Kindergarten last year. The youngest was in pre-school. It's not like they've formed life long friendships here... Heck. When I was a kid a lot of schools didn't include Kindergarten. It was an optional school you could send your kids to before starting "real school" at first grade. It was not uncommon to go to different pre-school and kindergarten than the school where you attended starting in first grade.

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Having been that kid, I can tell you, I certainly gave two sh*ts. I gave my parents hell for moving us when I was about to start middle school with all of my friends. The kids I'd grown up with. I hated starting at a new school.


Middle school is not kindergarten... And it's hardly a hardship anyway. Lots of kids move schools because their parents move. It happens. It's hardly the end of the world for the kids. Again, we don't know the details of this situation, but assuming whatever reason cropped up to cause the school to want the parents to take their kids elsewhere would not have magically gone away, isn't it better to make that decision now rather than have those kids suffer for 8 years in a school in which perhaps they'll be made fun of by the other kids?


At the end of the day, as several people have pointed out, a private school can set whatever criteria they want for admission. it's kinda silly to insist that your kids should attend a private school with stated principles which you violate (publicly) every single day in your life.
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#47 Mar 11 2010 at 9:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Having been that kid, I can tell you, I certainly gave two sh*ts. I gave my parents hell for moving us when I was about to start middle school with all of my friends. The kids I'd grown up with. I hated starting at a new school.

Having also been that kid, I got over it. I was in the exact situation one of these kids was in, going to an entirely different first grade. I probably couldn't have cared less at that age. When I went to high school with an entirely different set of kids, that was a little awkward for a year, but I got over it.
gbaji wrote:
isn't it better to make that decision now rather than have those kids suffer for 8 years in a school in which perhaps they'll be made fun of by the other kids?

Heh, and public school kids are so much more tolerant.
#48 Mar 11 2010 at 10:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guenny wrote:
Ugh. CDC CCD. Gotta stay away from this thread now because it is bringing up long-buried Catholic traumas.

edit: So long buried I couldn't tell BT what it stood for

Back in the day, we said it stood for Christian Catholic Detention.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#49 Mar 12 2010 at 12:11 AM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
The oldest was in Kindergarten last year. The youngest was in pre-school. It's not like they've formed life long friendships here... Heck. When I was a kid a lot of schools didn't include Kindergarten. It was an optional school you could send your kids to before starting "real school" at first grade. It was not uncommon to go to different pre-school and kindergarten than the school where you attended starting in first grade.


I didn't realize they were that young. I read the story and still missed it, I guess.
#50 Mar 12 2010 at 4:36 AM Rating: Good
I'm personally against private schools that impose silly entrance criteria. I think private schools should only be allowed if they follow the national curriculum to a "t", and if they don't discriminate in any way apart from financially. And even then, I think they should be forced to take in a % of kids that can't afford to go there in scholarship. I'm also against home-ed, by the way.

I think society has a fundamental vested interest in the way children are taught. You shouldn't be able to teach kids that, for example, evolution is a theory, or that God created the world in 6 days, or that using a condom is a sin. I also think that the more segregation you have in the education system, the more segregation you will have later on in society in general. Private schools are fundamentally a way to perpetuate the current social order and its inequalities.

People can tell their kids whatever they want to at home. But education is a responsibility that the state has to its citizens and to society at large. It shouldn't be left to churches and mosques, it's not the 16th century anymore.
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#51 Mar 12 2010 at 4:55 AM Rating: Good
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I personally see nothing wrong with either private school or homeschooling, provided that the teachers are competent and the curriculum is rigorous. Although this is merely tangential to my point, the Vatican is a-ok with evolution and a figurative reading of Genesis.

I think that following the national curriculum to a "t" could possibly be detrimental to education, owing to the fact that it's often rather anemic and caters to the lowest common denominator. In my opinion, a rigid adherence to a set curriculum without taking into consideration the needs and abilities of students engenders a kind of mediocrity that doesn't meet the needs of the gifted and can be too taxing for those who need extra help. Minimum requirements? Sure, don't really have anything against those.

I'm not against regulation to ensure a basic level of education, but I certainly don't see why the state needs to intrude to such a degree.


Edited, Mar 12th 2010 5:15am by Sweetums
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