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#27 Mar 03 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Yup, the old bootstraps mentality. This is what I would consider outdated thinking, but I suppose people in every time period have clung to at least one old paradigm because it worked for them.

I'm trying hard to hope that you don't really think self-reliance is "outdated thinking". That'd be a sad commentary on some things.
#28 Mar 03 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
I'm trying hard to hope that you don't really think self-reliance is "outdated thinking". That'd be a sad commentary on some things.
I don't think self-reliance is outdated at all. I think that the perception that it will solve all your issues if only you work hard enough is.
#29 Mar 03 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Default
Red,

Quote:
I was really hoping this crisis would force us all to work 5 hour days during a 4 day week, but alas.


And you wonder why you keep getting fired.


Ironically enough our idea of a good time is relatively similar. Well except for the sitting in the sun doing nothing but getting high bit.


These are the times when people like myself excel.


#30 Mar 03 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:

These are the times when people like myself excel.


At what?
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#31 Mar 03 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Samira wrote:
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
I can't see why you like him. He's a barely literate hack that needs to punctuate his rhetoric with illustrations of his stale metaphor to get any kind of emotional response from the audience even with the sore subject he's dealing with.


I can't quite decide whether you're talking about Ebert or Buffet. Smiley: laugh
I assumed he was commenting on Auden, said a mental 'fuck you', and moved on.


I'm not entirely sure how you could come to that conclusion.
Oh, it's really easy. Just glance superficially at your post, pick out the words 'literate' & 'metaphor' and jump to the easiest conclusion.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 12:44pm by Atomicflea


You know, I always assumed that people hung on my every word.

This has been a real eye opener for me.

Quote:
These are the times when people like myself excel.


Then why aren't you?
#32 Mar 03 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
These are the times when people like myself excel.
Oh, I'm sure you think you excel anytime.
#33 Mar 03 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
publiusvarus wrote:
These are the times when people like myself excel.
Oh, I'm sure you think you excel anytime.


Here's the real kick: he thinks he's excelling by doing ****-all differently than normal.

Hell, by that standard I excel. We all excel! We're all like Lake Wobegon up in here.

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#34 Mar 03 2010 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
publiusvarus wrote:
These are the times when people like myself excel.
Oh, I'm sure you think you excel anytime.


Here's the real kick: he thinks he's excelling by doing @#%^-all differently than normal.

Hell, by that standard I excel. We all excel! We're all like Lake Wobegon up in here.
Except my mom says I'm the prettiest.
#35 Mar 03 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
I don't think self-reliance is outdated at all. I think that the perception that it will solve all your issues if only you work hard enough is.

I think the misconception by a lot of people who "fail" at it is that everyone can have a big stately home with 3 Mercedes in the drive. Recognition that every individual has an innate level, above which he or she can not rise, is the first step to true happiness. It may sound callous, but the world needs ditch diggers, too. Acceptance of one's place in the order of things (determined by their innate ability and nothing else, if the work hard enough), is key to thriving.
#36 Mar 03 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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How very medieval of you.
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#37 Mar 03 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
How very medieval of you.
Some things remain true no matter the date.
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#38 Mar 03 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
I think the misconception by a lot of people who "fail" at it is that everyone can have a big stately home with 3 Mercedes in the drive. Recognition that every individual has an innate level, above which he or she can not rise, is the first step to true happiness. It may sound callous, but the world needs ditch diggers, too. Acceptance of one's place in the order of things (determined by their innate ability and nothing else, if the work hard enough), is key to thriving.


But, wouldn't that be "forces beyond their control conspiring to keep them down?"
#39 Mar 03 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
Sir Xsarus wrote:
How very medieval of you.

It's not medieval, though. It's a recognition that every individual is born with a certain ceiling on his or her abilities. A higher ceiling will not necessarily be reached without hard work. A lower ceiling, with hard, work will sometimes result in a better end than a lazy person with potential. It's a recognition that even though the worth of a man may be no different one to the next their can be no such claim made as to the outcomes of their lives. Talent doesn't ensure success, hard work doesn't ensure success. Hard work coupled with talent rarely leads to failure when the expectation of the individual is realistic.
#40 Mar 03 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
But, wouldn't that be "forces beyond their control conspiring to keep them down?"

No.
#41 Mar 03 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Default
Flea,

Quote:
Oh, I'm sure you think you excel anytime.


True. But in times like these democrats tend to whine and b*tch about how unfair life is and turn that belief into a self fulfilling prophecy. And I have no problem taking full advantage of their misconceptions.

Have you people seen the price of houses lately? Have you seen the price of gold?

#42 Mar 03 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
But, wouldn't that be "forces beyond their control conspiring to keep them down?"

No.


Really. Because having a ceiling at which your ability to rise is capped sounds like a force beyond their control keeping them down... Perhaps conspiring makes it sound a little too ominous, maybe a little paranoid, but still sounds like an apt description to me.
#43 Mar 03 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Really. Because having a ceiling at which your ability to rise is capped sounds like a force beyond their control keeping them down... Perhaps conspiring makes it sound a little too ominous, maybe a little paranoid, but still sounds like an apt description to me.

Constraints are different than outside forces.
#44 Mar 03 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
Really. Because having a ceiling at which your ability to rise is capped sounds like a force beyond their control keeping them down... Perhaps conspiring makes it sound a little too ominous, maybe a little paranoid, but still sounds like an apt description to me.

Constraints are different than outside forces.


Are you talking about abilities, then?

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#45 Mar 03 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
it's led me to sadly acknowledge that we, as a country are undergoing a shift in our collective paradigm and there is nothing to do but hold on tight and adjust. I've done it before--but I also see people in total denial, waiting for the 90s to come back.


I am optimistic. Not for the US, necessarily, to return to the 90's, US style, but for the US to look more like Europe did in the 1990s. And this is regardless of who politically is in power in the US. What I mean by this is: less spending on health care, less on the military, not a superpower militarily, less imports, more local production, generally: higher prices, higher wages, fewer jobs and far greater local autonomy.

By the way, this is not a hope, just what I feel is inevitable.

Here is roughly why: the world's population is transitioning from mostly poor to mostly some approximation of "middle class" (not US style, at least not yet). Now it is cheaper to produce goods where labor is cheap and transport them elsewhere. In the future, wages will rise elsewhere (China, for example) and fuel costs will be more expensive. Some of those manufacturing jobs? Ya, they are coming back. Not necessarily all back within US boarders, but closer. And at higher wages which means higher prices...and all the rest I said above.

About energy: I am an optimist on electricity. There are several ways we might generate comparably priced electricity. However, I am not an optimist on fuel prices. When the majority of people in China and India begin to drive cars, there will be a demand for fuel which cannot be offset by added exploration.
#46 Mar 03 2010 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
It hasn't hit us very hard, because we've always been very frugal. (Well, my husband has, and it's rubbed off on me.)

It's been little things, like switching from Bath & Body works to the $1 soaps and shampoos from the grocery store, and never eating out without a coupon.

However, that's about to change . . . because of the budget cuts on the University for the third year in a row, the local state botanical gardens is going to be shut down. This is a major blow. This is where we'd spend a great deal of our free time in spring, summer, and fall. The university students and townies and alumni alike are protesting these plans, because they provide a cheap date and many of us have happy memories there.

If the state gardens close, the nearest hiking trails longer than 1 mile are over 30 miles away in Watson Mill Bridge State Park. This suuuuucks.
#47 Mar 03 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Excellent
Samira wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
Really. Because having a ceiling at which your ability to rise is capped sounds like a force beyond their control keeping them down... Perhaps conspiring makes it sound a little too ominous, maybe a little paranoid, but still sounds like an apt description to me.

Constraints are different than outside forces.


Are you talking about abilities, then?

You mean when I wrote this...
Quote:
Acceptance of one's place in the order of things (determined by their innate ability and nothing else, if the work hard enough), is key to thriving.

Yeah. I'm relating it to ability.
#48 Mar 03 2010 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
Really. Because having a ceiling at which your ability to rise is capped sounds like a force beyond their control keeping them down... Perhaps conspiring makes it sound a little too ominous, maybe a little paranoid, but still sounds like an apt description to me.

Constraints are different than outside forces.


Are you talking about abilities, then?
I'm pretty sure he's talking about inheritance.

If you are born a slave, your lot in life is to be a slave, but dammit, you can be the best slave there is!
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#49 Mar 03 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
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They say "Sing while you slave!" but I just get bored.
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#50 Mar 03 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
Elinda wrote:
I'm pretty sure he's talking about inheritance.

I sig'ed you.
#51 Mar 03 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
How very medieval of you.

It's not medieval, though. It's a recognition that every individual is born with a certain ceiling on his or her abilities. A higher ceiling will not necessarily be reached without hard work. A lower ceiling, with hard, work will sometimes result in a better end than a lazy person with potential. It's a recognition that even though the worth of a man may be no different one to the next their can be no such claim made as to the outcomes of their lives. Talent doesn't ensure success, hard work doesn't ensure success. Hard work coupled with talent rarely leads to failure when the expectation of the individual is realistic.
So in your mind you can't conceive of a person with a natural ability for let's say, medicine, being unable to become a doctor if only he works hard enough, regardless of any other circumstance?
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