Every so often, I like to read Roger Ebert's blog in the Chicago Sun-Times. He has always been a great communicator, and reading about his new voice made me remember to pop in and have a look.
Today's blog, The Gathering Storm, really made me stop and consider the gravity of our situation. My grandparents were in Peru for the Depression and I don't have any stories about that, but I certainly knew poverty there. We left Peru for the opportunities the US could provide.
Now that the economy is undergoing this seemingly never-ending slide, I'm kind of at a loss. This is honestly something I never expected from this country, but I have the perspective of an outsider (ie, I know no one country is entitled to prosperity or made virtous because of it), and it's led me to sadly acknowledge that we, as a country are undergoing a shift in our collective paradigm and there is nothing to do but hold on tight and adjust. I've done it before--but I also see people in total denial, waiting for the 90s to come back.
I don't want to get in another discussion about Obama or Bush or the politics of it, but what I want to know is this: How has this affected your day-to-day? Anyone discovered a talent for bargain hunting? Has this just not sunk in? Do you think this has changed your worldview, the way it did for the Depression-era Americans?
Fyi, the title quote is from W.H. Auden's "Vespers".
We would rather be ruined than changed.
We would rather die in our dread
Than climb the cross of the moment
And let our illusions die.
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Flea wrote:
How has this affected your day-to-day? Anyone discovered a talent for bargain hunting? Has this just not sunk in? Do you think this has changed your worldview, the way it did for the Depression-era Americans?
Honestly not much. My parents both grew up poor, and so my brothers and I grew up with that... consciousness, I suppose, that poverty is absolutely possible even for good people who work hard. We were taught to save, to reuse, to do for ourselves as much as we could.
I can't say I've cherished all those lessons all the time; I've frittered away more than my fair share of money and time. On the other hand I have a decent stash socked away for retirement and a contingency plan in place just in case my job evaporates. I'm assured (by my boss, because I asked) that my job is secure but you never know.
That's the thing. You can't plan for everything. You just do what you can and hold on.
I suppose in that sense I've always been a pessimist about the economy. Never really thought about it that way before.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
I was always a bargain shopper, but I think what I miss the most is travelling. Not only is the price ludicrous, but I hesitate to absent myself from work for 3 weeks lest they discover they can do without me.
I always read Warren Buffet's letter to his stockholders, mainly because he amuses me.
I thought the P.S. line was interesting.
I thought the P.S. line was interesting.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
I'm honestly not sure what you're getting at. The world economy is on a down cycle, the US follows suit and compounds the problem because of reckless spending and investing. We've been in economic crisis before. It's not an acute society changer.
People will tighten up spending and proceed with more financial caution, but really the average life style of a generation of americans passing through this will not likely experience any huge changes to adapt to.
In a year or two from now it's just as likely that the economy will be on an upswing and you'll be buying Gucci again.
If our country and/or it's economy is on an over-all spiral into total failure or even a full-fledged restructuring, there will still be a few shorter episodes of an ups and downs before it becomes chaos. This will occur beyond our reckoning.
I've always been a tight wad. Our personal finances are such that we took on a ton of dept all at one time (two kids were at private colleges which we agreed to borrow some money to help pay for and a brand new house). It was not more than we could afford, but we've had to reign in some leisure time spending because of it. Basically we don't eat out as much and are doing relatively little travel.
Edit to add - The recreation of Roger Eberts voice is pretty cool. :)
Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 6:25pm by Elinda
People will tighten up spending and proceed with more financial caution, but really the average life style of a generation of americans passing through this will not likely experience any huge changes to adapt to.
In a year or two from now it's just as likely that the economy will be on an upswing and you'll be buying Gucci again.
If our country and/or it's economy is on an over-all spiral into total failure or even a full-fledged restructuring, there will still be a few shorter episodes of an ups and downs before it becomes chaos. This will occur beyond our reckoning.
I've always been a tight wad. Our personal finances are such that we took on a ton of dept all at one time (two kids were at private colleges which we agreed to borrow some money to help pay for and a brand new house). It was not more than we could afford, but we've had to reign in some leisure time spending because of it. Basically we don't eat out as much and are doing relatively little travel.
Edit to add - The recreation of Roger Eberts voice is pretty cool. :)
Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 6:25pm by Elinda
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
I can't see why you like him. He's a barely literate hack that needs to punctuate his rhetoric with illustrations of his stale metaphor to get any kind of emotional response from the audience even with the sore subject he's dealing with.
Elinda, I would venture to say that since you've always been a tightwad this isn't affecting you as deeply, but this, along with the war against terror are in my eyes, the defining events of my generation and likely to color my worldview for the rest of my natural life.
I lost my job a year ago because of the recession. I was lucky enough to find a new one, but it was just covering for a maternity leave, so after 8 months I had to find yet another one. I've had 3 different jobs in the last 12 months, and not one of those I left of my own free will.
I don't think it affected me much, apart from that. I've always tried to have a non-materialist world-view, and non-materialist values. My perfect moment is being outside in the sun with a J and my girlfriend, and I don't need too much money for that.
I do think that this crisis has precipitated the emergence of China and India as superpowers by about 20 years, if only because of relativity. Other than that, I'm a bit disappointed that so little has changed in the way the world works. I was hoping for more change, in the international economic system, in the way the financial sector is regulated, in our relationship with money, but well, that's my lot for being a bit of an optimist.
I don't think it affected me much, apart from that. I've always tried to have a non-materialist world-view, and non-materialist values. My perfect moment is being outside in the sun with a J and my girlfriend, and I don't need too much money for that.
I do think that this crisis has precipitated the emergence of China and India as superpowers by about 20 years, if only because of relativity. Other than that, I'm a bit disappointed that so little has changed in the way the world works. I was hoping for more change, in the international economic system, in the way the financial sector is regulated, in our relationship with money, but well, that's my lot for being a bit of an optimist.
The only effect that the economy has had on my day-to-day is being subjected to more stupid or unfortunate people whining about things they couldn't possibly understand. I have a great job, I have a great family, and I have a financial situation largely secure.
I have these things because I wanted them, set them as my goal and then went out and got them. I don't believe in forces beyond my control conspiring against me to hold me down. I was taught that anything I want in this world is mine for the taking if I put my shoulder down and plow ahead. So far, I haven't been led astray by that lesson.
I have these things because I wanted them, set them as my goal and then went out and got them. I don't believe in forces beyond my control conspiring against me to hold me down. I was taught that anything I want in this world is mine for the taking if I put my shoulder down and plow ahead. So far, I haven't been led astray by that lesson.
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Elinda, I would venture to say that since you've always been a tightwad this isn't affecting you as deeply, but this, along with the war against terror are in my eyes, the defining events of my generation and likely to color my worldview for the rest of my natural life.
I was a new driver in the 70's. I learned early to make deals with the station attendants to purchase more than my share of gas and to skip the lines...lol.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
this, along with the war against terror are in my eyes, the defining events of my generation and likely to color my worldview for the rest of my natural life.
I think the impact of 9/11 on the world was a lot bigger than the one for the financial crisis.
The caveat to this is of course the response of Zhou Enlai when asked for his assessment of the 1789 French Revolution: "It is too early to say".
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
I can't see why you like him. He's a barely literate hack that needs to punctuate his rhetoric with illustrations of his stale metaphor to get any kind of emotional response from the audience even with the sore subject he's dealing with.
I can't quite decide whether you're talking about Ebert or Buffet.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
The only effect that the economy has had on my day-to-day is being subjected to more stupid or unfortunate people whining about things they couldn't possibly understand. I have a great job, I have a great family, and I have a financial situation largely secure.
I have these things because I wanted them, set them as my goal and then went out and got them. I don't believe in forces beyond my control conspiring against me to hold me down. I was taught that anything I want in this world is mine for the taking if I put my shoulder down and plow ahead. So far, I haven't been led astray by that lesson.
I have these things because I wanted them, set them as my goal and then went out and got them. I don't believe in forces beyond my control conspiring against me to hold me down. I was taught that anything I want in this world is mine for the taking if I put my shoulder down and plow ahead. So far, I haven't been led astray by that lesson.
Yeah, whatever cracker.
Anyone who considers his financial destiny to be wholly under his own control is kidding himself.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
Anyone who considers his financial destiny to be wholly under his own control is kidding himself.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
I should probably also add that I am working on reduced hours because of the states budget shortfall. We get 'furlough' days off - unpaid. There were originally 20 scheduled and I think we've used up about half that. I've been kind of enjoying the time off, but it has cut even deeper into discretionary spending.
The last time we were on reduced hours was when I was hired in 92. Then we had both furlough days and 39 hour workweeks.
..oh and not ALL family travel has been suspended. I fly down to FL this weekend, hook up with the hubby whose currently doing some construction on his parents garage down there, and then we gonna drive down to the everglades for a couple days to wrestle with the gators. :)
The last time we were on reduced hours was when I was hired in 92. Then we had both furlough days and 39 hour workweeks.
..oh and not ALL family travel has been suspended. I fly down to FL this weekend, hook up with the hubby whose currently doing some construction on his parents garage down there, and then we gonna drive down to the everglades for a couple days to wrestle with the gators. :)
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Samira wrote:
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
I can't see why you like him. He's a barely literate hack that needs to punctuate his rhetoric with illustrations of his stale metaphor to get any kind of emotional response from the audience even with the sore subject he's dealing with.
I can't quite decide whether you're talking about Ebert or Buffet.
Ebert, but I can't promise it doesn't also apply to Buffet, as I only just started reading it.
At least in Buffet's case it would be irrelevant to his main purpose. As long as he makes money his shareholders probably don't care how pithy he is.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
I was really hoping this crisis would force us all to work 5 hour days during a 4 day week, but alas.
Quote:
I was really hoping this crisis would force us all to work 5 hour days during a 4 day week, but alas.
Your ghetto muzzies would only have more free time on their hands, which is a bad thing if I recall correctly.
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
I was really hoping this crisis would force us all to work 5 hour days during a 4 day week, but alas.
Your ghetto muzzies would only have more free time on their hands, which is a bad thing if I recall correctly.
I dunno, nothing stimulates the auto industry like car burning.
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
I was really hoping this crisis would force us all to work 5 hour days during a 4 day week, but alas.
Your ghetto muzzies would only have more free time on their hands, which is a bad thing if I recall correctly.
I dunno, nothing stimulates the auto industry like car burning.
I suppose we have to balance out the recalls.
Samira wrote:
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
I can't see why you like him. He's a barely literate hack that needs to punctuate his rhetoric with illustrations of his stale metaphor to get any kind of emotional response from the audience even with the sore subject he's dealing with.
I can't quite decide whether you're talking about Ebert or Buffet.
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
I have these things because I wanted them, set them as my goal and then went out and got them. I don't believe in forces beyond my control conspiring against me to hold me down. I was taught that anything I want in this world is mine for the taking if I put my shoulder down and plow ahead. So far, I haven't been led astray by that lesson.
Yup, the old bootstraps mentality. This is what I would consider outdated thinking, but I suppose people in every time period have clung to at least one old paradigm because it worked for them.
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Samira wrote:
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
I can't see why you like him. He's a barely literate hack that needs to punctuate his rhetoric with illustrations of his stale metaphor to get any kind of emotional response from the audience even with the sore subject he's dealing with.
I can't quite decide whether you're talking about Ebert or Buffet.
I'm not entirely sure how you could come to that conclusion.
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Samira wrote:
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
I can't see why you like him. He's a barely literate hack that needs to punctuate his rhetoric with illustrations of his stale metaphor to get any kind of emotional response from the audience even with the sore subject he's dealing with.
I can't quite decide whether you're talking about Ebert or Buffet.
I'm not entirely sure how you could come to that conclusion.
Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 12:44pm by Atomicflea
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