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What about the whale...Follow

#1 Feb 25 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Good
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What should be done with the killing killer whale.
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The whale's fate remains uncertain, but both Blake and Ellis believe it will not be killed, due to public outcry. They additionally think such whales will become more popular attractions because of the incident and the perceived danger aspect.


Seems this is not an isolated incident. This whale and others, mostly male I guess, get randy on occasion.

Quote:
Tilikum, the male killer whale that fatally injured trainer Dawn Brancheau in front of a stunned audience at SeaWorld in Orlando on Wednesday, was a breeding "stud" often housed in isolation.

Experts believe he did not kill for food, but may have been acting out due to stress and raging hormones.


Are the trainers that work with killer whales of the same ilk as the Grizzly man or the man that plays with lions.

Would the possibility of witnessing a real-live death make you more or less likely to go to a killer whale show?






Edited, Feb 25th 2010 3:38pm by Elinda
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#2 Feb 25 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Would the possibility of witnessing a real-live death make you more or less likely to go to a killer whale show?
Hell yeah. Why else would you want to see a giant mammalian fish swim in circles and occasionally jump? **** that, throw in a homeless guy.
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#3 Feb 25 2010 at 8:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Attach a laser to it, and aim it at the Japanese.
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#4 Feb 25 2010 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Why on earth would I want to see a "real-live" death? It wouldn't make me more or less likely to see a what show because I assume whale trainers aren't suicidal and do their damnedest not to be in a position where a whale will kill them.

As for this whale, keep it out of the shows and let it swim around a breed or do whatever. I realize that letting it free probably isn't an option for its own survival but having it in shows is just stupid now and killing it is a waste of a whale from a research/breeding standpoint.
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#5 Feb 25 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
killing it is a waste of a whale from a research/breeding standpoint.

Think about the money you could make selling it as "REALLY killer whale sashimi".
#6 Feb 25 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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I just saw that this is the third human death that this whale is blamed for. Put it in isolation, without trainers, not performing. This should have happened years ago. How many lion trainers would get in a cage with a cat that has already killed a man, or two? This trainer was taking a huge risk and she knew it.

I don't find "real-life" death entertaining - quite the contrary, actually. Part of the majesty of orca whales is that they are ferocious, killer beasts, but they can be tamed and gentle with humans. Watching one act like a wild animal isn't the reason that people go to Sea World.
#7 Feb 25 2010 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
I am in Orlando, and this is a very big deal...

This was the only male killer whale in Seaworld Orlando, and is used for breeding purposes. Due to the incidents in the past (including killing a man and then biting off his swimming trunks among possibly other parts)they never actually swim with him...they just got a very unlucky break where he grabbed her arm from over the edge and dragged her under and around until she was a bloody mess in his mouth.

The whale shouldn't be put down, but I honestly think it was stupid to include the whale in any shows in the first place when his temperament has been known and seen before.

Should honestly just set him in his own tank (where he is most of the time anyways, they tend to keep the males segregated I think)and not use him in any shows from then on.
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#8 Feb 25 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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On the other side, there's no indication that he meant to attack her. When a six-ton animal decides to play, it's anybody's guess what will happen.

Whales in captivity are bored, under-stimulated and dangerous because of their size, not because of their socialization.

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#9 Feb 25 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
killing it is a waste of a whale from a research/breeding standpoint.

Think about the money you could make selling it as "REALLY killer whale sashimi".
Think of the possibilities of breeding a whole army of REALLY killer whales.

...then arm them with lazers. There are A LOT of Japanese after all.
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#10 Feb 25 2010 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
On the other side, there's no indication that he meant to attack her. When a six-ton animal decides to play, it's anybody's guess what will happen.

Whales in captivity are bored, under-stimulated and dangerous because of their size, not because of their socialization.
Yeah, which dregs up all them ethical questions. Should we have large wild animals in captivity simply for our entertainment? Can we predict, with enough surety, the actions of a killer animal in captivity?

Should 'swimming with dolphins' therapy for special needs kids be extended to romping with the grizzlies?
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#11 Feb 25 2010 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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Should we have large wild animals in captivity simply for our entertainment?

Yes.
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Can we predict, with enough surety, the actions of a killer animal in captivity?

Yes.
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Should 'swimming with dolphins' therapy for special needs kids be extended to romping with the grizzlies?

You have issues with wildly outrageous analogies and connections.
#12 Feb 25 2010 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Not necessarily. Dolphins have been known to act aggressively toward humans in the wild, while orcas never have.

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#13 Feb 25 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
Not necessarily. Dolphins have been known to act aggressively toward humans in the wild, while orcas never have.



Yes, but dolphin's have therapeutic qualities as well. I think we're treading a fine line here. Should we not allow dogs to lead the blind because some of them are known to be aggressive? Should we not ride horses because of the threat of paralysis, etc? Animals are always going to have risks and benefits that need to be weighed. In this case, the bull was known to be aggressive, and they were still making him perform, which I imagine is stressful.

This is where the humans failed. Service animals especially are closely monitored and examined for their personality and behavior. While animals can be unpredictable, it's undeniable that if you spend enough time with one you will get a feel for its personality and behaviors. If this were a case where an always docile, "star" orca raised in captivity had snapped and killed someone, it would be a little scarier. This is an orca that was captured wild, and in its past decade in captivity has been held responsible for now three deaths. This is not a shock or an outrage, it was an avoidable accident.
#14 Feb 25 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Excellent
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
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Should we have large wild animals in captivity simply for our entertainment?

Yes.


No... No. that's definitely a "No". If you can derive some kind of scientific benefit from it, or if it can raise awareness and interest in wildlife for kids, then there is potentially a case to be made.

But keeping large wild animals in captivity simply for our entertainment, that's an obvious "no".
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#15 Feb 25 2010 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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No... No. that's definitely a "No". If you can derive some kind of scientific benefit from it, or if it can raise awareness and interest in wildlife for kids, then there is potentially a case to be made.

But keeping large wild animals in captivity simply for our entertainment, that's an obvious "no".

Listen, Frenchy, if someone has a question about whether to drop the rifle before or after you raise your hands or, perhaps, where to build the houses when the people cookers come in to best avoid the smell, we'll value your opinion. When it comes to mastery over nature, let an American tell you how it's done.
#16 Feb 25 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
When it comes to mastery over nature, let an American tell you how it's done.
...and if it comes out a bit garbled it's because it's difficult to articulate when being chomped on by a killer whale.

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#17 Feb 25 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
No... No. that's definitely a "No". If you can derive some kind of scientific benefit from it, or if it can raise awareness and interest in wildlife for kids, then there is potentially a case to be made.

But keeping large wild animals in captivity simply for our entertainment, that's an obvious "no".

Listen, Frenchy, if someone has a question about whether to drop the rifle before or after you raise your hands or, perhaps, where to build the houses when the people cookers come in to best avoid the smell, we'll value your opinion. When it comes to mastery over nature, let an American tell you how it's done.


RACK that ****. Moe, you are and have such a big swinging **** and I'm in awe of you right now.
#18 Feb 25 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Excellent
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
When it comes to mastery over nature, let an American tell you how it's done.


I don't know why, but the name "Katrina" kinda comes to mind.

But well, I'll leave it to you to feel masterful by torturing animals.
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#19 Feb 25 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
Should we have large wild animals in captivity simply for our entertainment?

Yes.


No... No. that's definitely a "No". If you can derive some kind of scientific benefit from it, or if it can raise awareness and interest in wildlife for kids, then there is potentially a case to be made.

But keeping large wild animals in captivity simply for our entertainment, that's an obvious "no".


Too black and white, dear Red. The ones that are entertaining are the ones that create the most awareness. I know people in our generation never lived without "save the whales!" so it's hard to comprehend, but the few, tortured beasts that have been sacrificed to the public eye have done unmeasurable amounts of good for their wild brethren.
#20 Feb 25 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
Guenny wrote:
Too black and white, dear Red. The ones that are entertaining are the ones that create the most awareness.


Too black and white, dear Guenny. Wild bears in circus with a funny hat riding a bycicle don't create "awareness", nor do they have any kind of scientific value. It's pure entertainement. And it's pure fucked-up.

Quote:
the few, tortured beasts that have been sacrificed to the public eye have done unmeasurable amounts of good for their wild brethren.


Debatable.

What's not debatable is that there are lots of ways to create awareness and raise scientific understanding without torturing anything. To be honest, and I'm hoping Moe won't read this, the US is the world leader in creating these kinds of environments.
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#21 Feb 25 2010 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thumbelyna Quick Hands wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
No... No. that's definitely a "No". If you can derive some kind of scientific benefit from it, or if it can raise awareness and interest in wildlife for kids, then there is potentially a case to be made.

But keeping large wild animals in captivity simply for our entertainment, that's an obvious "no".

Listen, Frenchy, if someone has a question about whether to drop the rifle before or after you raise your hands or, perhaps, where to build the houses when the people cookers come in to best avoid the smell, we'll value your opinion. When it comes to mastery over nature, let an American tell you how it's done.


RACK that sh*t. Moe, you are and have such a big swinging **** and I'm in awe of you right now.


Oh, *****, please. Smiley: oyvey

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#22 Feb 25 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know why, but the name "Katrina" kinda comes to mind.

The white folks got out...
#23 Feb 25 2010 at 12:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Samira wrote:
Thumbelyna Quick Hands wrote:
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
No... No. that's definitely a "No". If you can derive some kind of scientific benefit from it, or if it can raise awareness and interest in wildlife for kids, then there is potentially a case to be made.

But keeping large wild animals in captivity simply for our entertainment, that's an obvious "no".

Listen, Frenchy, if someone has a question about whether to drop the rifle before or after you raise your hands or, perhaps, where to build the houses when the people cookers come in to best avoid the smell, we'll value your opinion. When it comes to mastery over nature, let an American tell you how it's done.


RACK that sh*t. Moe, you are and have such a big swinging **** and I'm in awe of you right now.


Oh, *****, please. Smiley: oyvey



Oh, come on. It's barely been 65 years since the end of WWII. It's obviously still extremely relevant and poignant, especially to our generation.


Edited, Feb 25th 2010 6:00pm by RedPhoenixxx
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#24 Feb 25 2010 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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Oh, *****, please.Smiley: oyvey

Jealous much?Smiley: sly
#25 Feb 25 2010 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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#26 Feb 25 2010 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
In the immortal words of me, you have no idea.
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