His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
You mean the already government funded Medicaid and Medicare?
They are currently available. I don't have to sign up to get butt-f'ucked because I'm already getting my *** licked.
It would be vastly cheaper to cover everyone as we see from the example of virtually any first world nation outside the USA.
And the results would be vastly better health. Further, although Moe is indicating he is aware the US already has socialized health care, he is leaving out some of the main methods we pay for it by: bankruptcies and higher costs for care. Personal bankruptcy is an extremely inefficient means of paying for health care - but we do it.
At the end of the day, there is no choice: it is an economic necessity to cover everyone (either private or public...both options exist in other nations and vastly outperform the US system).
Moe wrote:
joph wrote:
There wasn't a publicly funded plan in the most recent bill. There was a private plan administered by the Office of Personnel Management -- the same system we use for covering all federal workers.
And massively subsidized by the tax payer. Don't pull stupid out of your back pocket, Joph. It isn't rocket surgery.
It isn't subsidized by the taxpayer any more then the health benefits of the employees of, say, McDonald's are subsidized by their customers. They are paid for.
moe wrote:
joph wrote:
As for mandates, if you're going to force insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions (at a realistic rate), you need to ensure that people don't all wait until they have a condition to seek coverage.
There in lies your basic failing. If we are talking about insurance, you should have to pay for risk. There are other options for terminal patients or chronic patients.
Moe's reply here is wrong on several levels.
First: Jophiel is suggesting we all buy insurance, thus we are all paying for risk. Moe counters that "you should have to pay for risk"...I'm not sure Moe understands what Jophiel is talking about here. Let's see what he comes up with :)
Second: if you get a serious condition, say cancer, and don't have insurance, you don't get treatment until very late in the game and it is very, very expensive. This is one principle reason why health care in the US is so expensive yet ineffective. As I'm sure Moe is aware, there are tens of millions who have neither insurance nor medicare/medicaid (which he indirectly specified as his mysterious "other options" in the quote above). And even more who are underinsured which basically means if they get anything serious their insurance will not pay for it.
I like that Moe suggests the government cover as he says the "terminal or chronic". This is refreshingly realistic. Other conservatives suggest we simply let them die. Although it would certainly bring down the cost of care, it is extremely unlikely we would actually pass it. On the other side, it is somewhat unlikely we would pass single payer system, UK style. Although I personally believe this is the best option and will make the US the most economically competitive with the rest of the world.
I actually can't argue that point 
