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1959 conviction still haunts gay man seeking workFollow

#1 Feb 16 2010 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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:(

They hurt him like they ruined the wit of Oscar Wilde. Damnit, England.

Quote:
He was convicted of a crime more than half a century ago, but what he did in 1959 — have consensual sex with another man — would be perfectly legal today.

So John Crawford, 70, wants his criminal record cleaned up for good, so that he doesn't have to disclose his conviction when he seeks volunteer work, and because of a deeply held belief that he should not be punished for his sexual orientation.

"I came into this world without a criminal record and I'd like to leave this world without one," said Crawford, a retired butler. "The police beat me and beat me and forced me to confess to being gay, but I know in my heart I did nothing wrong."

Crawford's bid to clean up his record is backed by gay organizations looking to help others who were convicted under Britain's once draconian anti-homosexuality laws, which began to be eased in 1967 as social values changed and sex acts between consenting adults began to be decriminalized.

"These laws were homophobic in the first place, that's why they were rescinded, but the laws are still penalizing people," said Deborah Gold, director of Galop, a gay rights group that has helped Crawford. "We've always had a regular trickle of people asking about it, how to get their records cleaned up."

She said Crawford suffered horrific treatment from the police and should not have to disclose his criminal conviction when seeking employment or volunteer work.

His lawyers wrote to Justice Secretary Jack Straw last week asking that the law be changed so that Crawford and others in his position would not have to disclose their convictions during the job interview process.


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#2 Feb 16 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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FWIW, the proposed law has exteremely well supported on the laboUr benches. so highly likely to be passed if LaboUr win. The Tories, of course, oppose it.
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#3REDACTED, Posted: Feb 16 2010 at 2:57 PM, Rating: Unrated, (Expand Post) So a 70yr old in the UK still has to work? What happened to the socialist utopia?
#4 Feb 16 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
So a 70yr old in the UK still wants to work?
FTFY
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#5 Feb 16 2010 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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article wrote:
So John Crawford, 70, wants his criminal record cleaned up for good, so that he doesn't have to disclose his conviction when he seeks volunteer work, and because of a deeply held belief that he should not be punished for his sexual orientation.



Reading comprehension ftw.
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#6 Feb 16 2010 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
publiusvarus wrote:
So a 70yr old in the UK still has to work? What happened to the socialist utopia?



He's retired, but he still volunteers.

Smiley: rolleyes
#7 Feb 16 2010 at 3:30 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
publiusvarus wrote:
So a 70yr old in the UK still has to work? What happened to the socialist utopia?



He's retired, but he still volunteers.

Smiley: rolleyes


As long as he doesn't volunteer with the Boy Scouts.
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#8REDACTED, Posted: Feb 16 2010 at 3:51 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) From the article;
#9 Feb 16 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
From the article;

Quote:
She said Crawford suffered horrific treatment from the police and should not have to disclose his criminal conviction when seeking employment or volunteer work.




See above.
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#10 Feb 16 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
publiusvarus wrote:
From the article;

Quote:
She said Crawford suffered horrific treatment from the police and should not have to disclose his criminal conviction when seeking employment or volunteer work.


First, that doesn't mean he has to work.

Second, I'm sure he's looked for employment since 1959, before he retired. He was required to disclose this conviction then.

ETA: Also, it doesn't matter if he has to work or not, I'm not sure why I'm arguing the point.

Edited, Feb 16th 2010 4:33pm by Belkira
#11 Feb 16 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ugh, Varus is such a distraction. My grandpa wished he could have worked past 65 but had to retire from his job. My mom wants to work at least until 70. I have lots of friends whose parents tried to retire but really was attracted back to the job market--and not just because of financial considerations but b/c they felt vital in their chosen profession. Maybe Varus is the world's laziest man, but some people like to stay productive, either through volunteer or paid work, even after our official retirement age.
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#12REDACTED, Posted: Feb 16 2010 at 4:45 PM, Rating: Unrated, (Expand Post) Anna,
#13 Feb 16 2010 at 4:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Anna,

Quote:
Maybe Varus is the world's laziest man


At least i'm not fat and lazy.


Yes, just lazy. Congratulations.
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#14REDACTED, Posted: Feb 16 2010 at 4:50 PM, Rating: Unrated, (Expand Post) Anna,
#15 Feb 16 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
Anna,

I always thought working smart was better than working hard. Obviously you feel differently.

I work at the office nearly 60hrs a week. When I'm not here I'm usually working on the garden/greenhouse, or reading, or exercising, or f*cking some insanely hot co-ed. So when do I get to be lazy?



"Working smart?" You are just spewing out cliches. You missed the entire point. You don't seem to understand that some people value their work and don't want to stop at an arbitrary age. Not everyone thinks that retirement is a great idea, or at least retiring at 65, which is pretty young. The retirement age in the US was set in the 30s. People live longer now and are healthier at more advanced ages. We really should think about changing our expectations in regards to productivity.
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#16 Feb 16 2010 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
My husband hopes to not have to retire until he's like 75. Late retirement indicates 1. you're in a profession you love 2. you're in good health and 3. when you finally DO retire, you're going to be in good enough physical and financial shape to enjoy it.

#17 Feb 16 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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Annabella of Future Fabulous! wrote:
publiusvarus wrote:
Anna,

I always thought working smart was better than working hard. Obviously you feel differently.

I work at the office nearly 60hrs a week. When I'm not here I'm usually working on the garden/greenhouse, or reading, or exercising, or f*cking some insanely hot co-ed. So when do I get to be lazy?



"Working smart?" You are just spewing out cliches. You missed the entire point. You don't seem to understand that some people value their work and don't want to stop at an arbitrary age. Not everyone thinks that retirement is a great idea, or at least retiring at 65, which is pretty young. The retirement age in the US was set in the 30s. People live longer now and are healthier at more advanced ages. We really should think about changing our expectations in regards to productivity.
I thought he was the one crowing about giving back to the community, anyway.
#18 Feb 16 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, whether he needs to work or not is really irrelevant. He wants to work, either for money or as a volunteer, and certainly should be allowed to do so.

I was coincidentally talking to someone today about forced retirement in Japan and how weird it is for workers there to work sixty hour weeks for forty years and then be forced out. That must be sort of a shock.

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#19REDACTED, Posted: Feb 16 2010 at 5:50 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Cat,
#20 Feb 16 2010 at 6:06 PM Rating: Good
publiusvarus wrote:
By the time I'm 70 I hope to own a caribean island and have a host of servants attending my every wish.
Someone has low aspirations for their future.
#21 Feb 16 2010 at 6:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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The situation from Annas original post is ludricrous. I do hope the change in the law is passed Smiley: nod

#22 Feb 16 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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MDenham wrote:
publiusvarus wrote:
By the time I'm 70 I hope to own a caribean island and have a host of servants attending my every wish.
Someone has low aspirations for their future.


A will to power, but no power to will.
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#23 Feb 17 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
Cat,

By the time I'm 70 I hope to own a caribean island and have a host of servants attending my every wish.



Anna,

I didn't miss your point I ignored it, there's a difference.

Quote:
You don't seem to understand that some people value their work and don't want to stop at an arbitrary age.


And you don't seem to understand that business owners work as long as they want without worrying about being forced into retirement.

Maybe that business owner wants to hire the old gay man. But he can't because of a dumb out-dated law.

...and now you're pro freedom-restricting, nosy-government legislation?

You're getting worse at this.






Edited, Feb 17th 2010 8:08pm by Elinda
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#24Raolan, Posted: Feb 17 2010 at 1:48 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Just because the law was changed doesn't remove the fact that he broke the law in the first place. At most the record should be sealed so he doesn't have to reveal the details and eliminate the discrimination factor, but the conviction should stand.
#25 Feb 17 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
Raolan wrote:
Just because the law was changed doesn't remove the fact that he broke the law in the first place. At most the record should be sealed so he doesn't have to reveal the details and eliminate the discrimination factor, but the conviction should stand.


Smiley: oyvey
#26 Feb 17 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
His lingering anger comes in part from the humiliation he suffered at the hands of police officers in 1959. He said they abused him physically and harassed him with vulgar taunts, then coerced him into pleading guilty by threatening to continue beating him if he did not cooperate.

As a result of that plea, he said he was saddled with a conviction that would not have been possible otherwise, especially since he was not accused of having sex in public.


The confession was coerced. The "offense" should not have been on the books in the first place.

Some laws are stupid and, in fact, unethical. When those laws are vacated, so should the record.

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