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$10.25? Really, you think they make that much?
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An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
$10.25? Really, you think they make that much?
Cheaper than security cameras, though just as controversial.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Debalic wrote:
Cheaper than security cameras, though just as controversialuseless.
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
When even folks hired as security guards call the cops instead of breaking up a fight, there is something behind it that's broader than just those three guys making a bad decision.
Yeah, it's called "I'm not getting my *** kicked in 3:1 odds for $10.25 an hour."
Except apparently they didn't even try to stop the fight at all. Just showing up and telling them to break it up would most likely have worked. Maybe not, but they could have at least tried. It's not like they thought this was a group of troublemakers getting into a rumble or anything. The girl went to them, told them that there was a group of people following her around and up to no good, begged them to help her get on the bus safely, and when she got attacked they just stood there.
I'm not saying wade in swinging. But after calling the cops and making sure they're on their way, they could have at least walked up to the group and told them to stop. According to the article they were specifically trained to just stand there and observe. So they were doing their jobs, but the larger question is: Why was that their job? Clearly they're there to protect the property and watching and observing works for that (slightly better than just having cameras), but I would hope some part of their responsibilities is also protecting the patrons as well.
Hence, my statement about "Someone Else's Problem" syndrome. Everyone just assumes someone else will take care of things. Even apparently, security guards...
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Um, if you watch the video, one of the guards is standing over the fight, holding out his hands, and it appears he's trying to tell them to separate.
But I agree, he's not getting paid to have his eyeballs clawed out by some teenage hoebag. That job belongs to the men in blue with the guns and tasers.
But I agree, he's not getting paid to have his eyeballs clawed out by some teenage hoebag. That job belongs to the men in blue with the guns and tasers.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
gbaji wrote:
Just showing up and telling them to break it up would most likely have worked.
You didn't actually watch the video, did you?
Quote:
Maybe not
Definitely not, had you actually watched it.
Edited, Feb 11th 2010 9:36pm by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Their training involves AVOIDING physical confrontation and calling the police. They did both.
Or they could have jumped in, got beaten up, and then sued, fired, and even become undesirable for most jobs for "breaking company policy."
I don't know, it's such a tough decision...
Edit: And if they HAD jumped in to help and actually fought them off, this thread would be related to "jackboot thuggery" and how law enforcement is excessively rough.
Edited, Feb 12th 2010 10:22am by Ehcks
Or they could have jumped in, got beaten up, and then sued, fired, and even become undesirable for most jobs for "breaking company policy."
I don't know, it's such a tough decision...
Edit: And if they HAD jumped in to help and actually fought them off, this thread would be related to "jackboot thuggery" and how law enforcement is excessively rough.
Edited, Feb 12th 2010 10:22am by Ehcks
Not sure what the liberal slant is here, but this seems like a pretty strong argument against privatization...
publiusvarus wrote:
If a group of people were beating up someone the age of your son would you sit by and say "it's not my problem"?
I'd totally join in! Especially if it was a black kid. I bet they were chasing him down because he stole some stuff for crack money, amirite??
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
publiusvarus wrote:
Echks,
Hmmm they could worry about themselves or they could step in prevent a murder.
It shouldn't be a tough decision.
Quote:
Their training involves AVOIDING physical confrontation and calling the police. They did both.
Or they could have jumped in, got beaten up, and then sued, fired, and even become undesirable for most jobs for "breaking company policy."
Or they could have jumped in, got beaten up, and then sued, fired, and even become undesirable for most jobs for "breaking company policy."
Hmmm they could worry about themselves or they could step in prevent a murder.
It shouldn't be a tough decision.
I thought they were just following their Randian self interest?
Just as Planned.
Shouldn't people be complaining more so about the passersby who did nothing to help? I mean, you can defend the security guards in a sense by saying they could have lost their jobs for violating policy (however poor we think that policy may be) but all the other people just walking around the scene... aren't they the problem?
I think there is a lack of regard for the world around you although I don't think it's political be it via Varus's idiotic claims or Gbaji's ham-handed attempts to tie it into leftist welfare state ideals or whatever shit he was on about.. I think it's just an insular feeling of "I don't give a shit." Thinking the passersby were afraid of being sued is probably giving them too much credit. In reality, they were probably thinking variations of "Who'll handle my medical bills if I'm hurt?" or "This will make me late for work" or "Huh. People fighting... that's nice." Really, it boils down to "I'll never see you again so not only do I not care if someone else handles it, I don't care if you live or die because you're just another meaningless lump of flesh blocking my path."
You think every single person in sight range of that event was a "liberal"? Of course not. But not a single one ran over and got involved.
I think there is a lack of regard for the world around you although I don't think it's political be it via Varus's idiotic claims or Gbaji's ham-handed attempts to tie it into leftist welfare state ideals or whatever shit he was on about.. I think it's just an insular feeling of "I don't give a shit." Thinking the passersby were afraid of being sued is probably giving them too much credit. In reality, they were probably thinking variations of "Who'll handle my medical bills if I'm hurt?" or "This will make me late for work" or "Huh. People fighting... that's nice." Really, it boils down to "I'll never see you again so not only do I not care if someone else handles it, I don't care if you live or die because you're just another meaningless lump of flesh blocking my path."
You think every single person in sight range of that event was a "liberal"? Of course not. But not a single one ran over and got involved.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
The irony is thick.
publiusvarus wrote:
The lack of regard for human life stems from a pillar of liberalism.
Until people start understanding that EVERY LIFE has value the masses will continue to show this "lack of regard" you're talking about.
Until people start understanding that EVERY LIFE has value the masses will continue to show this "lack of regard" you're talking about.
Unless I missed the news, isn't the foundation of conservatism "For yourself first"? It stresses independence, and the desire to not rely on, or offer help to, others. By help I mean anything really; it's a "Me first" mentally. I thought that Varrus' definition of liberalism blends into socialism; caring for all, taking care of each other, the group first and self later.
So, uh, I think your definitions are completely wrong... even if we just go with what you consistently say.
But really it has nothing to do with politics. As Joph said, people just don't give a shit. They make up excuses, but it's a completely nonpolitical, psychologically based reason... even in Psych 101 we learned about Kitty Genovese, and the huge amount of psychological studies that went into it. The result was the theory of the Bystander Effect, which states:
Quote:
...individuals do not offer help in an emergency situation when other people are present. The probability of help has in the past been thought to be inversely proportional to the number of bystanders; in other words, the greater the number of bystanders, the less likely it is that any one of them will help.
Granted the theory is controversial, but again it has nothing to do with politics.
Edit: Note that the Bystander Effect is just to explain why no one else helped. The reason the officers didn't get dragged into the melee was likely their own policies.
Edited, Feb 12th 2010 3:09pm by LockeColeMA
Sweetums wrote:
The irony is thick.
I was thinking hypocrisy.
You're all misunderstanding varrus here. He just misspelled libertarianism. 
If you ever observe this happening the easiest way to break it is to just start telling people what to do.
Edited, Feb 12th 2010 2:13pm by Xsarus
Quote:
in other words, the greater the number of bystanders, the less likely it is that any one of them will help.
Edited, Feb 12th 2010 2:13pm by Xsarus
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publiusvarus wrote:
The lack of regard for human life stems from a pillar of liberalism.
No, but nice try. I didn't see any conservatives rushing over to help her. They were probably too busy muttering "fucking ghetto rats" under their breath as they walked around the scene.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Jophiel wrote:
Shouldn't people be complaining more so about the passersby who did nothing to help? I mean, you can defend the security guards in a sense by saying they could have lost their jobs for violating policy (however poor we think that policy may be) but all the other people just walking around the scene... aren't they the problem?
I think there is a lack of regard for the world around you although I don't think it's political be it via Varus's idiotic claims or Gbaji's ham-handed attempts to tie it into leftist welfare state ideals or whatever shit he was on about.. I think it's just an insular feeling of "I don't give a shit." Thinking the passersby were afraid of being sued is probably giving them too much credit. In reality, they were probably thinking variations of "Who'll handle my medical bills if I'm hurt?" or "This will make me late for work" or "Huh. People fighting... that's nice." Really, it boils down to "I'll never see you again so not only do I not care if someone else handles it, I don't care if you live or die because you're just another meaningless lump of flesh blocking my path."
You think every single person in sight range of that event was a "liberal"? Of course not. But not a single one ran over and got involved.
I think there is a lack of regard for the world around you although I don't think it's political be it via Varus's idiotic claims or Gbaji's ham-handed attempts to tie it into leftist welfare state ideals or whatever shit he was on about.. I think it's just an insular feeling of "I don't give a shit." Thinking the passersby were afraid of being sued is probably giving them too much credit. In reality, they were probably thinking variations of "Who'll handle my medical bills if I'm hurt?" or "This will make me late for work" or "Huh. People fighting... that's nice." Really, it boils down to "I'll never see you again so not only do I not care if someone else handles it, I don't care if you live or die because you're just another meaningless lump of flesh blocking my path."
You think every single person in sight range of that event was a "liberal"? Of course not. But not a single one ran over and got involved.
Well said.
I was driving home from work the other day, and while I was stopped at a junction on a quiet street, this complete ****** stopped at the junction, waited for a duck to walk out (we have herds of ducks around here) in front of him, and when it was right in front of him, floored it and ran over the thing.
there was a bunch of people standing around watching this duck flapping around in the road as the guy drove off. I was really pissed off with him and was out of my car to 'have a word', but as soon as he saw me coming, he took off. Everyone just carried on looking at the duck, and at me, but no one was doing anything for the duck... I walked over and picked it up and went to take it to the vet around the corner, bt it died on the way.
I know its only a duck, but other than shaking their heads, no one did anything to help the animal.
I think the same would be true if it had been a human.
So yeah, humans are pretty crap when it comes to violence. They wait for someone else to make the first move more often than not. Fuck all to do with political leanings.
So in conclusion. Gbaji and Varus are desperate idiots.
But we already knew that
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
Sir Xsarus wrote:
If you ever observe this happening the easiest way to break it is to just start telling people what to do.
Or kill half the people in order to diminish the population multiplier of the Effect.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Jophiel wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
If you ever observe this happening the easiest way to break it is to just start telling people what to do.
Or kill half the people in order to diminish the population multiplier of the Effect.
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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Locked,
You missed the news and aren't even close. The foundation fo conservatism is personal responsibility. Something Democrats don't believe in.
We do place an emphasis on individualism and independence. We do have a desire not to rely on govn for survival, as should everyone.
As for offering help to others you have no idea what you're talking about. Churches donate far more resources than any liberal organization. We just don't think the govn pointing a gun at it's citizens and forcing them to "donate" is the way to go.
Family first; then community.
Remind me again what you did to better your neighborhood last year?
Quote:
Unless I missed the news, isn't the foundation of conservatism "For yourself first"?
You missed the news and aren't even close. The foundation fo conservatism is personal responsibility. Something Democrats don't believe in.
Quote:
It stresses independence, and the desire to not rely on, or offer help to, others.
We do place an emphasis on individualism and independence. We do have a desire not to rely on govn for survival, as should everyone.
As for offering help to others you have no idea what you're talking about. Churches donate far more resources than any liberal organization. We just don't think the govn pointing a gun at it's citizens and forcing them to "donate" is the way to go.
Quote:
By help I mean anything really; it's a "Me first" mentally.
Family first; then community.
Remind me again what you did to better your neighborhood last year?
I improved the lives of hookers by giving them an income in return for valuable services!
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