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As if we needed another exampleFollow

#1 Feb 08 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
of how completely and utterly @#%^ed the private health insurance system is...

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-anthem-obama9-2010feb09,0,4384044.story wrote:
The Obama administration called on Anthem Blue Cross on Monday to justify its controversial new rate hikes of as much as 39% for individual policyholders, saying the increases were alarming at a time when subscribers are facing skyrocketing healthcare costs.

In a letter to the company's president, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius voiced serious concern over the rates, which go into effect March 1 for many of the insurer's estimated 800,000 individual policyholders.

The increases have triggered widespread criticism from Anthem members and brokers, who say the premium hikes will put health coverage out of reach for some and very costly for others.

"With so many families already affected by rising costs, I was very disturbed to learn through media accounts that Anthem Blue Cross plans to raise premiums for its California customers by as much as 39%," Sebelius wrote to company President Leslie Margolin.


39% rate hike? I'm curious as to what percent of policy holders will face this. Sounds like it's mostly California at the moment, but seriously, what the fuck???

Edited, Feb 8th 2010 4:04pm by BrownDuck
#2 Feb 08 2010 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not defending the US Private Healthcare industry, and 39% inflation (when base rate inflation is in low single figures) sounds incredibly disproportionate at face value but. . .

Healthcare inflation has 4 major factors that set it apart from general inflation:

1. An aging population. Old people are incredibly expensive to treat, and many of the wrinklier and smellier citizens would have been long-dead under previously available medicine.
2. New Drugs - coming onto the market all the time, and costing more and more. Also keeping frail old people alive - see 1.
3. An increasingly over-fed, under-exercised population of wobble-***** who suffer rates of diabetes, heart disease and stroke that are off the scale compared to the good old days of hard work and a basic hearty diet
4. New surgical technology and procedures that save lives that were previously lost causes. See 1 again.

By most economists' reckoning, healthcare inflation outside of the USA is running between 9% and 14%.

So you're still getting screwed. Not as outrageously as the article might make you believe, but outrageous enough.
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#3 Feb 08 2010 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
California gets boned for 2 reasons: state laws & federal laws.

Change the offensive laws, save money on health coverage.
#4 Feb 08 2010 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
MoebiusLord the Irrelevant wrote:
Change the offensive laws, save money on health coverage.


Which would be?
#5 Feb 08 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
Get rid of ridiculous coverage mandates, allow people to purchase (and provide) plans more easily across state lines, etc.

Basically your run of the mill de-regulation.
#6 Feb 08 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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MoebiusLord the Irrelevant wrote:
Basically your run of the mill de-regulation.
Good call!

With any luck, the Healthcare Industry can become as successful as the banks! Smiley: thumbsup
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#7 Feb 08 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
MoebiusLord the Irrelevant wrote:
Get rid of ridiculous coverage mandates, allow people to purchase (and provide) plans more easily across state lines, etc.


Man, if only we could have some sort of national coverage. That would be fucking nifty.
#8 Feb 08 2010 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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Kaelesh wrote:
MoebiusLord the Irrelevant wrote:
Get rid of ridiculous coverage mandates, allow people to purchase (and provide) plans more easily across state lines, etc.


Man, if only we could have some sort of national coverage. That would be fucking nifty.
Death Panels Smiley: nod
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#9 Feb 08 2010 at 4:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nobby wrote:
Kaelesh wrote:
MoebiusLord the Irrelevant wrote:
Get rid of ridiculous coverage mandates, allow people to purchase (and provide) plans more easily across state lines, etc.


Man, if only we could have some sort of national coverage. That would be fucking nifty.
Death Panels Smiley: nod
Pointless, meandering stories down 200%! Suspender industry in peril!
#10 Feb 08 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
Nobby wrote:
I'm not defending the US Private Healthcare industry, and 39% inflation (when base rate inflation is in low single figures) sounds incredibly disproportionate at face value but. . .

Healthcare inflation has 4 major factors that set it apart from general inflation:

1. An aging population. Old people are incredibly expensive to treat, and many of the wrinklier and smellier citizens would have been long-dead under previously available medicine.
2. New Drugs - coming onto the market all the time, and costing more and more. Also keeping frail old people alive - see 1.
3. An increasingly over-fed, under-exercised population of wobble-***** who suffer rates of diabetes, heart disease and stroke that are off the scale compared to the good old days of hard work and a basic hearty diet
4. New surgical technology and procedures that save lives that were previously lost causes. See 1 again.

By most economists' reckoning, healthcare inflation outside of the USA is running between 9% and 14%.

So you're still getting screwed. Not as outrageously as the article might make you believe, but outrageous enough.


Point three actually, along with smoking, should decrease the costs for the companies. If people start dropping dead at 40 or 50, their health costs will not get as high as people who reach the age of 90. Is the average lifespan still increasing lately?
#11 Feb 08 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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Zieveraar wrote:
Point three actually, along with smoking, should decrease the costs for the companies. If people start dropping dead at 40 or 50, their health costs will not get as high as people who reach the age of 90. Is the average lifespan still increasing lately?
Not really since health care is able to keep them alive a lot of the time, it just costs a ton. Intensive care is really expensive.
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#12 Feb 08 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
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Zieveraar wrote:

Point three actually, along with smoking, should decrease the costs for the companies. If people start dropping dead at 40 or 50, their health costs will not get as high as people who reach the age of 90. Is the average lifespan still increasing lately?
Epic Phail.

Before we smokists and drinkaholics shuffle off this mortal coil, we cost a bloody fortune in medication and treatments for Coronary Heart Disease, Pulmonary Disease, Cancers, Diabetes, and often toss-in a Stroke or two to ramp up the bills.
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#13 Feb 08 2010 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
Nobby wrote:
Zieveraar wrote:

Point three actually, along with smoking, should decrease the costs for the companies. If people start dropping dead at 40 or 50, their health costs will not get as high as people who reach the age of 90. Is the average lifespan still increasing lately?
Epic Phail.

Before we smokists and drinkaholics shuffle off this mortal coil, we cost a bloody fortune in medication and treatments for Coronary Heart Disease, Pulmonary Disease, Cancers, Diabetes, and often toss-in a Stroke or two to ramp up the bills.


True, but a lot of old people have high costs too. You can't forget the decrease of lifespan of about 40 years, that's bound to include a massive health cost.

Also, they might be new treatments, and the development have cost a lot of money, but a fair amount of diseases are cheaper to treat nowadays because they are better treated, lower recidivism (ok, no idea what the real English word is and I'm too lazy to google it). More cancers can be treated faster and more effectively, making it potentially cheaper in the long run.

#14 Feb 08 2010 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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Smoking is bad, but I somehow doubt that it takes 4 decades off of the average lifespan.
#15 Feb 08 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
Nobby wrote:
Zieveraar wrote:

Point three actually, along with smoking, should decrease the costs for the companies. If people start dropping dead at 40 or 50, their health costs will not get as high as people who reach the age of 90. Is the average lifespan still increasing lately?
Epic Phail.

Before we smokists and drinkaholics shuffle off this mortal coil, we cost a bloody fortune in medication and treatments for Coronary Heart Disease, Pulmonary Disease, Cancers, Diabetes, and often toss-in a Stroke or two to ramp up the bills.


Remembering that thread with Gwyn, I was going to do a whole gotcha thing with this. But, as it turns out, I misremembered your stance and so they don't really contradict each other.

But I can't let that forum search be for nothing.
#16 Feb 08 2010 at 4:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
But, as it turns out, I misremembered your stance and so they don't really contradict each other.
No. In fairness, I do contradict myself in the two threads, but I do it with an educated and endearing charm and elan, so it's all good.
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#17 Feb 08 2010 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
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1. An aging population. Old people are incredibly expensive to treat, and many of the wrinklier and smellier citizens would have been long-dead under previously available medicine.
2. New Drugs - coming onto the market all the time, and costing more and more. Also keeping frail old people alive - see 1.
3. An increasingly over-fed, under-exercised population of wobble-***** who suffer rates of diabetes, heart disease and stroke that are off the scale compared to the good old days of hard work and a basic hearty diet
4. New surgical technology and procedures that save lives that were previously lost causes. See 1 again.


You forgot the entrenched bureaucracy....oh wait :) The reality is that this is probably what has to happen for healthcare reform to have any chance in the US. The good news is that Kaiser will probably come in at a 33% increase and be a real bargain.
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#18 Feb 08 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:


1. An aging population. Old people are incredibly expensive to treat, and many of the wrinklier and smellier citizens would have been long-dead under previously available medicine.
2. New Drugs - coming onto the market all the time, and costing more and more. Also keeping frail old people alive - see 1.
3. An increasingly over-fed, under-exercised population of wobble-***** who suffer rates of diabetes, heart disease and stroke that are off the scale compared to the good old days of hard work and a basic hearty diet
4. New surgical technology and procedures that save lives that were previously lost causes. See 1 again.


You forgot the entrenched bureaucracy....oh wait :) The reality is that this is probably what has to happen for healthcare reform to have any chance in the US. The good news is that Kaiser will probably come in at a 33% increase and be a real bargain.
Fair point.

I do look at USA with a mix of envy and despair - as a proportion of total Healthcare spend, US Management costs are 5x what they are in the UK's publicly funded system 9which are half the proportion of Private UK healthcare providers)
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#19 Feb 08 2010 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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Nobby wrote:


I do look at USA with a mix of envy and despair - as a proportion of total Healthcare spend, US Management costs are 5x what they are in the UK's publicly funded system 9which are half the proportion of Private UK healthcare providers)


If the UK spent as much per capita on their healthcare as is spent in the US, the average Brit would be fucking immortal!
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#20 Feb 08 2010 at 8:06 PM Rating: Good
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Factoid I picked up last night:

40% of US citizens have never been to a dentist.
#21 Feb 08 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Factoid I picked up last night:

40% of US citizens have never been to a dentist.


When I was a little kid (2nd grade and under), I went to the dentist regularly. Then my dad's contract with the Navy expired and we moved. We were poor and without insurance. I didn't go to the dentist for quite a while (until I graduated from high school).

Then something happened, and my parents were covered by an insurance for a little while (yes, it was some welfare program, I don't know the details). So while I was covered, I went to the dentist and they said I needed to get my wisdom teeth pulled. We had to rush to get it done before the insurance was over, so I had to get it done during Christmas (that sucked).


Now I have a job and have insurance through that. But I still don't go as much as I should. I get a free cleaning every 6 months, but I only actually get it done once a year. I brush twice a day, every day. I try to floss every day, but usually only 2-3 times a week. The dentists never see a problem with my teeth.
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#22 Feb 08 2010 at 8:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Factoid I picked up last night:

40% of US citizens have never been to a dentist.


Yeah, I don't believe it.

Do you know the source?

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#23 Feb 08 2010 at 9:37 PM Rating: Default
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It's a Pre-emptive raise if Obamacare passes.
#24 Feb 08 2010 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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KryjeckI wrote:
It's a Pre-emptive raise if Obamacare passes.


Like they wouldn't have raised it regardless of what the administration was doing?
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#25 Feb 08 2010 at 10:03 PM Rating: Good
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Sweetums wrote:
Smoking is bad, but I somehow doubt that it takes 4 decades off of the average lifespan.


It's roughly a decade per pack per day, with an average of -12yrs.
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#26 Feb 09 2010 at 1:45 AM Rating: Good
GBATE!! Never saw it coming
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Pardon my crashing ignorance, but isn't a significant part of the problem that insurance companies invested heavily in things like the mortgage-backed securities, lost a ****-ton of money and are trying to recoup those losses through rate hikes?


If I'm wrong, please let me know. I'm no economist.
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