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Obama bowing againFollow

#27 Feb 02 2010 at 10:59 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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The One and Only ShadorVIII wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Since this was from the "Most Emailed Photos" section I took a peek at some of the other photos, and found #7 and #19 far more interesting.



Edited, Feb 1st 2010 2:01pm by bsphil


FTFY
They've changed since yesterday, fyi.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#28 Feb 02 2010 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Now all the other national mayors will ready the attack knowing that Obama is weak!


Maybe not the mayors, but we all know Gov. Richardson is just waiting for an opportunity to strike. You will only realize too late the folly of your inaction.

When the time comes, don't say I didn't warn you.
#29 Feb 02 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
Gurue
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Varrus hasn't been back to this thread I see.
#30REDACTED, Posted: Feb 02 2010 at 1:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nadenu,
#31 Feb 02 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
I have to admit I'm just one of those random lurkers who checks here for occasional interesting commentary on the news and have gotten used to varrus' ideas but this one really has me confused.

When people come into my house, I don't care if they take their shoes off. Partly because any mud added would be an improvement over the cig and coal burns left by the previous tenants but mainly because I don't care about carpet that much.

However, if I go to another persons house and they ask me to take my shoes off at the door, I do. I really just don't understand why following the etiquette of the house degrades or hampers your importance in any way?

Can anyone explain this thought pattern to me?
#32 Feb 02 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Defualty wrote:
Can anyone explain this thought pattern to me?
We all want to know but will never understand.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#33 Feb 02 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
Vagina Dentata,
what a wonderful phrase
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You know what's tiresome about Varrus? He's so typical of the right wing nutjob that has taken over the partisan debate. You focus on the petty ********* There is plenty about the Obama administration to criticize--real substantial stuff but we just get mired in the stupidest ****. God, I wish our national debate was more about actual important issues than if the fucking president bowed to a mayor.
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#34 Feb 02 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
Ah well, I choose to believe Obama was actually holding in a sneeze on the way down just to let it go when he met the major, thus surprisingly and ironically disrespecting the mayor. After all, who really cares about Tampa other than practitioners of a violent and outdated method of wealth acquisition.
#35gbaji, Posted: Feb 02 2010 at 3:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It doesn't. No one is criticizing Obama for being polite. The point is that what he's doing in some cases goes beyond politeness and enters into the realm of deference. He was not asked to bow to any of those people, and was not expected to. There is decorum for activities like that and well understood protocols to follow. Presidents have managed to do this for a long time before Obama came along without giving offense. When someone from a western country is meeting someone from a culture in which bowing is important, a visible head nod is all that is expected. Anything more than that is viewed as "fake" and is more likely to give offense than avoid it. Specifically, the form of bow Obama has been giving (head down, looking at the ground) is not a bow of respect in *any* culture, much less the ones in which the people he's giving them to belong.
#36 Feb 02 2010 at 3:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Vagina Dentata,
what a wonderful phrase
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See, gbaji has been to Asia. He's an expert.
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#37 Feb 02 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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Blah blah chauvinism blah blah submissiveness blah blah insecurity blah blah the terrorist's are gun' get us if we don't hide the weak and the gays!
#38 Feb 02 2010 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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gbaji wrote:
No one is criticizing Obama for being polite.
I bet I could find someone who is.

gbaji wrote:
The other aspect of this is that his bows appear to be somewhat random. Like it's just a habit he does when he's not thinking about it. That also carries some pretty negative connotations though. To follow your analogy, it's like being invited into a home where it's optional to take off your shoes (but is done by the residents) and you decide to strip down to your skivvies because you think that you should be comfortable with the people living there. It's at best "awkward" for the hosts.
You heard it here first folks, bowing during a greeting is the equivalent of stripping down to your underwear when you go to a friend's house.



Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 4:24pm by bsphil
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#39 Feb 02 2010 at 6:16 PM Rating: Default
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bsphil wrote:
You heard it here first folks, bowing during a greeting is the equivalent of stripping down to your underwear when you go to a friend's house.


If we're following the analogy that an appropriate bow is the equivalent of taking your shoes off when entering someone's home, yeah...
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#40 Feb 02 2010 at 6:56 PM Rating: Good
Eh, I think we're going to see po-tay-toes and to-mah-toes on this one. I look at the man from the Western culture and see the consummate gentlemen saying "What can I do for you today?" Sure there are mooches and ******** who are going to assume they have advantage in the situation, but that'll just make it all the harder for them when crash and burn because reality knows who has the real power.

As for the fitting in, again, sure some people will say "What an idiot" but I believe (not going to make an assumption for "most people") that many foreigners would be pleasantly surprised, especially considering the intelligence of the person in question, that a North American was willing to quit being so goddamned proud of himself for 2 minutes and at least make a gesture. It's like mutilating a sentence in Spanish, sure the Brazilian will laugh at the mistake but he'll also be pleased you spoke to him in something other than randomness.

As for the randomness I don't know, I don't pay that much attention to every time the pres gets off a plane but I will say the Presidential Staff probably knows more about proper times to strip down to skivvies than you, me, or the whole internet combined.
#41 Feb 02 2010 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
I'm not sure what sort of etiquette people think he's following, but to me (and most people) he comes off like one of those tourists who misread a travel guide about local customs and ends out just annoying the hell out of the locals by trying to "fit in". They'll smile and wave, but inside they're thinking "what a freaking idiot!"...

Most people? My Googling skills might be lacking, but I can't find the Rasmussen poll with correlating data...
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#42 Feb 02 2010 at 8:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've never actually heard anyone from these nations say that they think Obama did anything wrong. I've never seen news editorials from the foreign presses saying Obama did anything wrong. The notion that "OMG OBAMA BOWED WTF???" is pretty much solely a Republican talking point. Which is why they have the fall back on things like "Sure, they won't say it but you KNOW they're thinking it! It's true!!!"

I made this same point back during Obama's trip to Japan. I looked at a half dozen Japanese papers for editorials or columns about it and no one said a word. They were infinitely more worried about Obama's views on the US bases in Japan or relations with China or nuclear energy or trade or anything else on earth than how Obama bowed. People from Japan I've spoken to or seen opine in various threads on the topic were likewise uninterested. Same as during the UK trip -- Brits that I spoke to couldn't have given a rat's *** about Obama's dealings with the Queen from an etiquette standpoint. Aside form a couple tabloids, no one said a peep except on this particular side of the ocean.

Ironically, the one column I did find in a Japanese paper about Obama's bow was purely about how some Americans were throwing a hissy fit over it. Not an article from a Japanese viewpoint, but about how idiotic some Americans were being.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 8:07pm by Jophiel
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#43 Feb 02 2010 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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Defualty wrote:
It's like mutilating a sentence in Spanish, sure the Brazilian will laugh at the mistake but he'll also be pleased you spoke to him in something other than randomness.
.
Except Brazilians speak Portuguese /unnecessary pedantry
#44 Feb 02 2010 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
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Sweetums wrote:
Defualty wrote:
It's like mutilating a sentence in Spanish, sure the Brazilian will laugh at the mistake but he'll also be pleased you spoke to him in something other than randomness.
.
Except Brazilians speak Portuguese /unnecessary pedantry


Everything South of the US is Spanish. When will you learn.
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#45 Feb 02 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
TirithRR the Eccentric wrote:
Sweetums wrote:
Defualty wrote:
It's like mutilating a sentence in Spanish, sure the Brazilian will laugh at the mistake but he'll also be pleased you spoke to him in something other than randomness.
.
Except Brazilians speak Portuguese /unnecessary pedantry


Everything South of the US is Spanish. When will you learn.


While Tirith raises a good point, thank you for the correction Sweet. If it wouldn't make me look like an f'in pussy, I'd think some sort of head lowering gesture to acknowledge my mistake and regard for their culture would be in order. Fortunately I'm smart enough to know the most important moment in a discussion is the first 15 seconds.
#46 Feb 03 2010 at 6:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not terribly fond of the man, but isn't criticizing EVERY SINGLE THING HE DOES a little petty?
#47 Feb 03 2010 at 6:48 AM Rating: Good
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Usagi wrote:
I'm not terribly fond of the man, but isn't criticizing EVERY SINGLE THING HE DOES a little petty?


Nope.

It's Republican Smiley: motz
#48 Feb 03 2010 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Usagi wrote:
I'm not terribly fond of the man, but isn't criticizing EVERY SINGLE THING HE DOES a little petty?


Nope.

It's Republican Smiley: motz
Ah, so it is.
Really though, I am getting a little tired of:
ZOMG OBAMA LOOKED A GIRL'S BUTT!
ZOMG OBAMA HAD A BEER AT A BASKETBALL GAME!
ZOMG OBAMA FARTED AND IT SMELLED BAD!

I made that last one up... or did I?
#49REDACTED, Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 8:26 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#50 Feb 03 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Good
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Bowing isn't subservient, it's respectful. People give head nods to others all the time. What the **** do you think that is? It's a minor bow.
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#51REDACTED, Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 8:41 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ugly,
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