Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

The UKs Equality BillFollow

#1 Feb 01 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,086 posts
The UK Equality Bill will be passing through the commons in the near future.

I did not really pay attention to this bill until a story was shown about the Pope spewing off about it

So I decided to look at it.

Whats interesting is that this bill not only combines many older bills into one more recognisable document but that it furthers the rights of some previously discriminated sections of society.
There is also a clear clash of religious belief being protected while at the same time banning any discrimination against GLBT sections of society which religions actively encourage.

I was wondering what people thought about the rights of the GLBT lobbyist being protected and how this mixes with religion.

Whats interesting is how little noise this bill is making considering the drama caused in the US by laws granting only a subset of the rights of the UK bill.
#2 Feb 01 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
*****
15,512 posts
TFA wrote:
Churches feared they could face prosecution if they refused to go against their beliefs and employ gays and transsexuals and Catholics warned that they could be forced to admit women to the priesthood.


Good lord.
#3 Feb 01 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,086 posts
Sweetums wrote:
TFA wrote:
Churches feared they could face prosecution if they refused to go against their beliefs and employ gays and transsexuals and Catholics warned that they could be forced to admit women to the priesthood.


Good lord.


I'm just wondering what this kind of Bill would stir in particular American states ...

Edited, Feb 1st 2010 8:12pm by GwynapNud
#4 Feb 01 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent
Ministry of Silly Cnuts
*****
19,524 posts
The only controversy about the bill is that some churches (Roman Catholic, Muslim) argue it will 'force them' to accept openly gay or transexual people or women into their employment. Churches & mosques will not be able to reject clerics on the grounds of gender or sexuality.

This is why I have lobbied for it for 15 years. It's our 21st Century Magna Carta.
____________________________
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
#5 Feb 01 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Excellent
*******
50,767 posts
GwynapNud the Eccentric wrote:
I'm just wondering what this kind of Bill would stir in particular American states ...
It wouldn't make it to discussion because they pay too much for lobbyists.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#6 Feb 01 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
lolgaxe wrote:
GwynapNud the Eccentric wrote:
I'm just wondering what this kind of Bill would stir in particular American states ...
It wouldn't make it to discussion because they pay too much for lobbyists.


I think at the moment if a religious institution gets federal money (perhaps for counselling or providing some kind of social service) they have to obey some rules regarding people hired for those positions. As for more then that? It would go nowhere.
#7 Feb 01 2010 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
35,568 posts
yossarian wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
GwynapNud the Eccentric wrote:
I'm just wondering what this kind of Bill would stir in particular American states ...
It wouldn't make it to discussion because they pay too much for lobbyists.


I think at the moment if a religious institution gets federal money (perhaps for counselling or providing some kind of social service) they have to obey some rules regarding people hired for those positions. As for more then that? It would go nowhere.


I'm going to play a bit of devil's advocate here, but why do you believe this?

If an organization is sufficiently capable of providing social services as to otherwise qualify under some sort of federal funding program for such things, why should it matter what sort of employment practices they engage in? In what way are the two related? Doesn't this mean that the funding money becomes a lever to change the organizations rather than about funding what it claims to fund?


I guess what I'm getting at here, is that if it's a violation of an organizations rights to make it outright illegal for them to restrict priesthood to men (for example), then isn't blocking funding for unrelated functions of their organization just as wrong? Isn't that just a backhanded way of accomplishing the same thing? Seems deceptive to me...

Edited, Feb 1st 2010 5:07pm by gbaji
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#8 Feb 01 2010 at 7:08 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
35,568 posts
Nobby wrote:
The only controversy about the bill is that some churches (Roman Catholic, Muslim) argue it will 'force them' to accept openly gay or transexual people or women into their employment. Churches & mosques will not be able to reject clerics on the grounds of gender or sexuality.

This is why I have lobbied for it for 15 years. It's our 21st Century Magna Carta.


So you claim this as well? Just checking. You write that as though they're nutty for assuming this result, yet that's clearly exactly what you want...
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#9 Feb 02 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,474 posts
gbaji wrote:
So you claim this as well? Just checking. You write that as though they're nutty for assuming this result, yet that's clearly exactly what you want...
I think he's writing as if they're nutty for thinking that they shouldn't include people of any gender or sexuality. And of course, he's right.





This of course works in reverse right? Were I to live in the UK and want a job at an all women's gym, they couldn't not hire me because I'm a guy, right?
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#10 Feb 02 2010 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
yossarian wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
GwynapNud the Eccentric wrote:
I'm just wondering what this kind of Bill would stir in particular American states ...
It wouldn't make it to discussion because they pay too much for lobbyists.


I think at the moment if a religious institution gets federal money (perhaps for counselling or providing some kind of social service) they have to obey some rules regarding people hired for those positions. As for more then that? It would go nowhere.


I'm going to play a bit of devil's advocate here, but why do you believe this?

If an organization is sufficiently capable of providing social services as to otherwise qualify under some sort of federal funding program for such things, why should it matter what sort of employment practices they engage in? In what way are the two related? Doesn't this mean that the funding money becomes a lever to change the organizations rather than about funding what it claims to fund?


I guess what I'm getting at here, is that if it's a violation of an organizations rights to make it outright illegal for them to restrict priesthood to men (for example), then isn't blocking funding for unrelated functions of their organization just as wrong? Isn't that just a backhanded way of accomplishing the same thing? Seems deceptive to me...

Edited, Feb 1st 2010 5:07pm by gbaji


When I posted "I think at the moment" that means I think what the law is, at the moment. It is not what I think the law should be.

When I wrote: "As for more then that? It would go nowhere." that means to the best of my knowledge, with the American people at large, such a proposal would go nowhere. It does not mean that is what I want.

If, instead, I were to post my opinion as if it were reality - in other words: were I to confuse what I believe and what reality* is, I would be utterly mad. And not worth arguing with.

*for example, the newspapers I read summarize the law as being

Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 210 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (210)