Scott Roeder, the man who murdered abortion provider George Tiller in his Wichita, KS church has been convicted of first degree murder.
I find the fact that the jury reached their verdict in 37 minutes to be a damn strong statement.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/28/kansas.abortion.roeder.verdict/index.html?hpt=T2
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Yeah. Two-hundred-plus trimesters is a pretty late term abortion.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
Yeah. Two-hundred-plus trimesters is a pretty late term abortion.
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
I would as well except that I had a twenty-minute abortion argument with a friend out of the blue the other day and was reminded just how polarizing this issue is. People play the murder card all the time with the ickle babies, but they don't hesitate to threaten free-range peoples.
Because of Kansas law, he isn't eligible for the death penalty, which really only leaves life in prison on the table.
I find that preferable, anyway. It's cheaper to not kill him for the state, plus I'm not a huge fan of the death penalty to begin with.
I find that preferable, anyway. It's cheaper to not kill him for the state, plus I'm not a huge fan of the death penalty to begin with.
Bardalicious wrote:
I find that preferable, anyway. It's cheaper to not kill him for the state, plus I'm not a huge fan of the death penalty to begin with.
It would be fun if they could abort him though.
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
The whole pro-life zealot killing people angle always makes me giggle.
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lolgaxe wrote:
The whole pro-life zealot killing people angle always makes me giggle.
*Sigh* It makes me more sad than giggle. I am pro-life myself (though not in a nutso way like this guy).
But, honestly, do people like this forget the following when claiming a religious motive for their actions:
"Thou shalt not kill." - Exodus 20:13
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." - Romans 12:19
In other words, the judgement and punishment of those involved is God's, not ours.
Just my
The One and Only ShadorVIII wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
The whole pro-life zealot killing people angle always makes me giggle.
*Sigh* It makes me more sad than giggle. I am pro-life myself (though not in a nutso way like this guy).
But, honestly, do people like this forget the following when claiming a religious motive for their actions:
"Thou shalt not kill." - Exodus 20:13
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." - Romans 12:19
In other words, the judgement and punishment of those involved is God's, not ours.
Just my
ShadorVIII wrote:
In other words, the judgement and punishment of those involved is God's, not ours.
I've been saying this to people on the right forever. None of them seem to get it. I have a respect for you that I don't have for many who are pro-life. Our opinions may differ, but you have a head on your shoulders. Rate-up for you.
I'm quite happy he was convicted. It's never right to kill someone because you disagree with their views.
I'm pro-choice, but I would never want my significant other to get an abortion, if we thought we couldn't handle a child, I'd push for either adoption or for my parents to take care of it, but I don't see why those who are ok with it shouldn't be able to do it. It's their choice, not mine, not some religious zealot's, but theirs.
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#11gbaji,
Posted: Jan 29 2010 at 11:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yeah, you have a point. Actually, no. You really don't. No one seriously interprets that to mean that people should never take any action to prevent people from doing bad things here on earth, or work to make laws which punish people who hurt others, or fight in wars, or pretty much a whole ton of stuff which falls into the "not waiting for the guy to die so that god can do his thing" category.
gbaji wrote:
If you believe based on your own religion that it is murder to commit an abortion, but you live in a country in which the laws don't reflect that, you are placed in a dilemma. I can certainly understand how and why someone might be willing to become a murderer under the law which doesn't reflect his beliefs to stop a mass murderer under the law which does.
gbaji wrote:
No one seriously interprets that to mean that people should never take any action to prevent people from doing bad things here on earth, or work to make laws which punish people who hurt others, or fight in wars, or pretty much a whole ton of stuff which falls into the "not waiting for the guy to die so that god can do his thing" category.
But you aren't stopping a mass murderer; you're stopping a mass killer, exactly according the the definition you established earlier.
Most people have chosen to interpret the Bible as not supporting vigilantism. If the laws of your country are unjust, then as a Christian you should correct that injustice in a just and godly way, which in this case was clearly not the method.
Shadow wasn't suggesting inaction, but murdering sinners is not in accordance with the scripture as most people have chosen to interpret it.
gbaji wrote:
If your suggestion was even remotely followed then why do any Christians support any laws at all? If we are really just supposed to ignore acts other people take and let God deal with it later, we shouldn't have any right?
Because most Christians I know assert that God works through man. Christians supporting laws is God dealing with it.
Edited, Jan 30th 2010 12:58am by Allegory
Quote:
I find the fact that the jury reached their verdict in 37 minutes to be a damn strong statement.
What? Considering he's been flat out admitting yes he did it from the beginning?
AlexanderrOfAsura wrote:
Quote:
I find the fact that the jury reached their verdict in 37 minutes to be a damn strong statement.
What? Considering he's been flat out admitting yes he did it from the beginning?
I feel like 37 minutes is barely enough time to get to the room and select a foreman.
That's probably what happened.
Jury: *blinking, shuffle into the deliberation room*
Juror1: So . . .
Juror2: We need to select an, um, foreman.
Juror3: I'll do it.
Jury: *shrugs noncommitally*
Juror2: Okay, that was easy.
Juror1: So . . .
Juror4: He said he did it.
Juror5: Pretty damn clearly.
Juror6: Well, let's review the testimonies point by point.
(Jurors proceed to pass around pieces of paper, review the notes they took, half-heartedly debate. 10 minutes later, they fall silent.)
Juror4: I can't see any way of saying he's NOT guilty.
Jury: *blinking, shuffle into the deliberation room*
Juror1: So . . .
Juror2: We need to select an, um, foreman.
Juror3: I'll do it.
Jury: *shrugs noncommitally*
Juror2: Okay, that was easy.
Juror1: So . . .
Juror4: He said he did it.
Juror5: Pretty damn clearly.
Juror6: Well, let's review the testimonies point by point.
(Jurors proceed to pass around pieces of paper, review the notes they took, half-heartedly debate. 10 minutes later, they fall silent.)
Juror4: I can't see any way of saying he's NOT guilty.
gbaji wrote:
Quote:
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." - Romans 12:19
In other words, the judgement and punishment of those involved is God's, not ours.
In other words, the judgement and punishment of those involved is God's, not ours.
Yeah, you have a point. Actually, no. You really don't. No one seriously interprets that to mean that people should never take any action to prevent people from doing bad things here on earth, or work to make laws which punish people who hurt others, or fight in wars, or pretty much a whole ton of stuff which falls into the "not waiting for the guy to die so that god can do his thing" category.
If your suggestion was even remotely followed then why do any Christians support any laws at all? If we are really just supposed to ignore acts other people take and let God deal with it later, we shouldn't have any right? That is clearly not true and has never been true. So maybe you're putting a bit more weight on that concept than it really has?
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Quote:
If your suggestion was even remotely followed then why do any Christians support any laws at all?
Presumably because most Christians are rational enough to understand that there has to be a mutually agreed-upon social contract in order for large numbers of people with disparate beliefs to live in close proximity.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
Quote:
If your suggestion was even remotely followed then why do any Christians support any laws at all?
Presumably because most Christians are rational enough to understand that there has to be a mutually agreed-upon social contract in order for large numbers of people with disparate beliefs to live in close proximity.
This.
ALSO: Christians are directed by the New Testament to submit to the authority of the country in which they live. Whether you like the laws of the land or not, a Christian is required to abide by them. So no, this guy had no Scriptural basis for this.
While were at it; you can't be "pro-life" and support the death penalty. Let's go with "anti-choice" shall we?
remorajunbao wrote:
One day I'm going to fly to Canada and open the curtains in your office.
Bardalicious wrote:
I feel like 37 minutes is barely enough time to get to the room and select a foreman.
The foreman is selected when the jury is seated. And in my experience it is always juror #1. There is no selection process.
Deathwysh wrote:
Bardalicious wrote:
I feel like 37 minutes is barely enough time to get to the room and select a foreman.
The foreman is selected when the jury is seated. And in my experience it is always juror #1. There is no selection process.
I'd heard somewhere that foreman selection is either prior to the beginning of the trial or before deliberations.
Either way, it's still a short time when you consider the scope of the trial.
Agreed. With the hope that 12 responsible people would not approach any task so cavalierly as to condemn a man of first degree murder without thoughtful consideration of the evidence presented, we can only assume that the case was so open and shut that no great deliberation was needed. As it stands, and purely as a disinterested observer, I see no great reason to suspect that the lack of deliberation time is in any way indicative of an injustice.
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Samira wrote:
Quote:
If your suggestion was even remotely followed then why do any Christians support any laws at all?
Presumably because most Christians are rational enough to understand that there has to be a mutually agreed-upon social contract in order for large numbers of people with disparate beliefs to live in close proximity.
This.
ALSO: Christians are directed by the New Testament to submit to the authority of the country in which they live. Whether you like the laws of the land or not, a Christian is required to abide by them. So no, this guy had no Scriptural basis for this.
While were at it; you can't be "pro-life" and support the death penalty. Let's go with "anti-choice" shall we?
This is why I hate labels. Too damn polarizing. To clarify. Any belief I reference is with regard to myself. Neither I nor any other human have the right to tell others what to believe.
Actually:
Grandfather Driftwood wrote:
I'm pro-choice, but I would never want my significant other to get an abortion, if we thought we couldn't handle a child, I'd push for either adoption or for my parents to take care of it, but I don't see why those who are ok with it shouldn't be able to do it. It's their choice, not mine, not some religious zealot's, but theirs.
See. This is pretty much my exact beliefs, and Driftwood calls himself pro-choice and I call myself pro-life. What's in a label?
Edited, Jan 30th 2010 8:14pm by ShadorVIII
Edited, Jan 30th 2010 8:14pm by ShadorVIII
Quote:
I'm pro-choice, but I would never want my significant other to get an abortion, if we thought we couldn't handle a child, I'd push for either adoption or for my parents to take care of it,
Sucks to be your parents. Or your child.
Friar Bijou wrote:
While were at it; you can't be "pro-life" and support the death penalty. Let's go with "anti-choice" shall we?
I'd like to kick out everyone claiming to be "pro-life" who supports the death penalty from that tent, but...
Wait a minute. How is killing an innocent baby the same as killing a mass murdering rapist mime son of a *****? I mean, sure, if the baby killed a ******** of people too, sure, hang it. I got no truck with evil babies.
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Wait a minute. How is killing an innocent baby the same as killing a mass murdering rapist mime son of a *****? I mean, sure, if the baby killed a sh*tload of people too, sure, hang it. I got no truck with evil babies.
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