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Pentagon repealing DADTFollow

#27 Feb 02 2010 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I'm not homophobic person.


Yes you are. I don't have nearly as much of a problem with someone being bigoted as I do them lying about it.

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I just don't see any positive reason for wanting this rule appealed. It's not like gays could get married while in the service anyway.


5 States, a District and an Indian Tribe disagree with you.

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So seriously, what's the point.


The point would be equal protection and rights under the law. The rights and protections they're fighting for the rest of us.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 2:03pm by Kaelesh
#28 Feb 02 2010 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm not homophobic person.[sic]


You're probably right, you're really a closeted bottom that is into rape fantasy.
#29REDACTED, Posted: Feb 02 2010 at 2:17 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't think gays should be in certain units, but no I won't say gays shouldn't be allowed to serve. Women aren't allowed to serve in a combat unit, but they serve as MP's and similar units. By having gays come out of the closest, you'll only encourage discrimination complaints by both sides. Is it acceptable for guys to have to shower with a gay person when they separate the women soldiers? You can't sit here and tell me that a gay soldier isn't attracted to at least one guy in the shower. If I was allowed to shower with girls, married or single, it would not be appropriate. Our rules of common decency separate the males and females for this reason. So explain how we should handle this then. This goes for everything including CPR training etc.
#30 Feb 02 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
It's not like gays could get married while in the service anyway. So seriously, what's the point.


No kidding, numbnuts, the law forbidding gays to get married while in the military IS IN DADT.

Relevant info is relevant:
Quote:
(b) Policy.— A member of the armed forces shall be separated from the armed forces under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Defense if one or more of the following findings is made and approved in accordance with procedures set forth in such regulations:
(1) That the member has engaged in, attempted to engage in, or solicited another to engage in a homosexual act or acts unless there are further findings, made and approved in accordance with procedures set forth in such regulations, that the member has demonstrated that—
(A) such conduct is a departure from the member’s usual and customary behavior;
(B) such conduct, under all the circumstances, is unlikely to recur;
(C) such conduct was not accomplished by use of force, coercion, or intimidation;
(D) under the particular circumstances of the case, the member’s continued presence in the armed forces is consistent with the interests of the armed forces in proper discipline, good order, and morale; and
(E) the member does not have a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts.
(2) That the member has stated that he or she is a homosexual or bisexual, or words to that effect, unless there is a further finding, made and approved in accordance with procedures set forth in the regulations, that the member has demonstrated that he or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in, has a propensity to engage in, or intends to engage in homosexual acts.
(3) That the member has married or attempted to marry a person known to be of the same biological sex.


Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 3:19pm by LockeColeMA
#31 Feb 02 2010 at 2:27 PM Rating: Default
Kaelesh wrote:

Yes you are. I don't have nearly as much of a problem with someone being bigoted as I do them lying about it.


I'm not lying, I just worded my post poorly.

Quote:


5 States, a District and an Indian Tribe disagree with you.


You're wrong, gay marriage is not accepted by the military. I wasn't talking about civilians. Even if DADT is repealed, gay marriages won't get benefits.

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The point would be equal protection and rights under the law. The rights and protections they're fighting for the rest of us.


I don't have anything against equal rights. It's hard for me to understand why it's so important why gays want people to know they are gay. I don't care if people think I'm straight. :P
#32 Feb 02 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Is it acceptable for guys to have to shower with a gay person when they separate the women soldiers? You can't sit here and tell me that a gay soldier isn't attracted to at least one guy in the shower.


Your soldiers' blushing virginal modesty isn't the issue. A woman has very little chance of fighting off a male rapist. Presumably a man would.

I think you're less worried about a gay guy "being attracted" to another man, and more worried that your manly hetero men might respond.

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#33 Feb 02 2010 at 2:31 PM Rating: Decent
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
You're wrong, gay marriage is not accepted by the military. I wasn't talking about civilians. Even if DADT is repealed, gay marriages won't get benefits.


I don't recall saying anything about benefits. We're talking marriage. Which the Federal Govn can't stop if you're in a state that allows it.
#34 Feb 02 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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NVM, wrong link.



Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 3:41pm by Annabella
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Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#35 Feb 02 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Default
Samira wrote:

Your soldiers' blushing virginal modesty isn't the issue. A woman has very little chance of fighting off a male rapist. Presumably a man would.

I think you're less worried about a gay guy "being attracted" to another man, and more worried that your manly hetero men might respond.



Naaaa.. I call b.s. on the rape theory. We have separate bathrooms, changing rooms, etc because our society was founded on males and females being attracted to each other and requiring that modesty. Now we have females loving females and males loving males. It's not a smart idea to allow a gay male to use the same facility as a straight male.

I don't think a hetero male would respond in public regardless. That's not my business, but I do feel its a double standard if gays can shower with straight guys, but guys can't shower with straight girls.

Quote:
I don't recall saying anything about benefits. We're talking marriage. Which the Federal Govn can't stop if you're in a state that allows it.


Kick you out of the service, but otherwise I agree.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 2:42pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#36 Feb 02 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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As a ***** female, I have never really been all that interested in looking at other women at public bathrooms or in public showers. Mostly b/c of that socialization--I'm pretty used to it.
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#37 Feb 02 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Annabella of Future Fabulous! wrote:
As a ***** female, I have never really been all that interested in looking at other women at public bathrooms or in public showers. Mostly b/c of that socialization--I'm pretty used to it.

I was reading a thread elsewhere a week or two back asking gay guys if they every checked out the dudes in the health club locker rooms. The overwhelming answer was "no", that they had their own stuff to attend to and that guys changing really wasn't all that sexually interesting.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#38 Feb 02 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
It's not a smart idea to allow a gay male to use the same facility as a straight male.


Kind of like black and white people using the same water fountain, huh?

Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 2:48pm by Kaelesh
#39 Feb 02 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
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As a old time vet the only issue I see would be IN Garrison. IIRC the living spaces when I was was 3 person room and they were very cramped and there was privacy at all.

Some people are homophobic and forcing them to share close living space like that would not make for a good quality of life, it would like having a female soldier share tight personal space with a pair of male soldiers. It's not appropriate at all.

Next issue you could have is if there make separate quarters for gay soldiers would by the kids claiming to be gay to get a room to their selves. I know a lot of kids who got married just to get out of barrix life and the results were all bad.

Note before the flaming, I have no issues with gays or them serving openly in the service at all.
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#40 Feb 02 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Default
Kaelesh wrote:


Kind of like black and white people using the same water fountain, huh?


I resent that implication. This isn't a racial issue, this is a decency issue. What is so wrong with upholding decency? Why can't we be separated from a gay male the same way a female is separated by changing rooms? I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp. If you are attracted to the same sex, you don't belong in the room.. period.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 3:07pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#41 Feb 02 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Kaelesh wrote:


Kind of like black and white people using the same water fountain, huh?


I resent that implication. This isn't a racial issue, this is a decency issue. What is so wrong with upholding decency?


You ******* should resent that because I sure as **** resent your argument.

Nothing is wrong with upholding decency, provided it's decent. Which this isn't. We're all human beings, what's wrong with being decent to each other?



That's a lot of decency.
#42 Feb 02 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Kaelesh wrote:


Kind of like black and white people using the same water fountain, huh?


I resent that implication. This isn't a racial issue, this is a decency issue. What is so wrong with upholding decency?
What, in your opinion, is the decency issue?
#43 Feb 02 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Default
Kaelesh wrote:


You @#%^ing should resent that because I sure as sh*t resent your argument.

Nothing is wrong with upholding decency, provided it's decent. Which this isn't. We're all human beings, what's wrong with being decent to each other?



That's a lot of decency.


So explain why it's wrong for straight males and females to shower together, but it's ok for a gay male to shower with straight guys. I'm in agreement about treating ALL people decently, but I can't seem to answer my own question. Is it right for sexes that are attracted to each other to share common areas including shower facilities?

Quote:
What, in your opinion, is the decency issue?


All I'm saying is that it's hypocritical to ask for equal rights of decency if you're not willing to see the other side. A straight male shouldn't have to know the guy showering next to him is gay. By doing so, you break all kind of boundaries. It doesn't matter if the guy is checking him out or not, it's the uncomfortable feeling that's the problem.

Basically I'm comparing a homophobic response to your typical male in female common place. You wouldn't have a lone male showering in a locker room of ladies Why is it any different to have a lone gay male showering in a male locker room? The sexes are separated for a lot of reasons, but the main reason is to enhance comfort. It's not comfortable if someone is looking at you like a piece of meat. The term used by females "undressing me with your eyes" applies here. Even if fully clothed, there can always be harassment on both sides. The straight guy could bash the gay male for being ***** and a gay male could easily make a straight guy uncomfortable in a private setting.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 3:32pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#44 Feb 02 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
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Because straight males are more likely to be rapists than gay ones.
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#45 Feb 02 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
So explain why it's wrong for straight males and females to shower together, but it's ok for a gay male to shower with straight guys. I'm in agreement about treating ALL people decently, but I can't seem to answer my own question. Is it right for sexes that are attracted to each other to share common areas including shower facilities?


I can't because I don't think it's wrong.

Course, I can control myself to not just rape (with my eyes or otherwise) a woman because I find her naked form attractive.
#46 Feb 02 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
So explain why it's wrong for straight males and females to shower together, but it's ok for a gay male to shower with straight guys.

Social taboos, really. There's nude beaches but you don't see women getting jumped and raped every five minutes. Men of all orientations use the same locker rooms at health clubs, swimming pools, colleges/high schools, etc and no one gets attacked.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#47 Feb 02 2010 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Is it right for sexes that are attracted to each other to share common areas including shower facilities?

It has very little to do with sexual attraction and more to do with social and functional dynamics.

There isn't anything wrong with a straight man and a straight woman using the same bathroom, but many people find the idea bothersome. There is no real problem, only a psychological uneasiness.

It's also practical to have a set of two facilities, because the needs are different between the sexes and similar across them. Urinals are convenient for men, gay or straight, but not so much for women. Feminine product dispensers and receptacles are useful for women, gay or straight, but not so much for men.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 3:27pm by Allegory
#48 Feb 02 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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We had coed bathrooms, including shower stalls, in college. It was never a big issue.
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Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#49 Feb 02 2010 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
A straight male shouldn't have to know the guy showering next to him is gay. By doing so, you break all kind of boundaries. It doesn't matter if the guy is checking him out or not, it's the uncomfortable feeling that's the problem.


Nooo. No homophobia here... Smiley: rolleyes

But, I acutally do agree with you. It's the uncomfortable feeling that's the problem. It's the straight guy that's the problem, in other words.
#50 Feb 02 2010 at 3:43 PM Rating: Default
Kaelesh wrote:

I can't because I don't think it's wrong.

Course, I can control myself to not just rape (with my eyes or otherwise) a woman because I find her naked form attractive.


Now we're getting somewhere good. You claim you can control what you do with your eyes and I believe you for the most part. However, you can go to a club and see 100 different women and only have dirty thoughts about a few. That's my point in a nutshell. I'm not suggesting that a gay male is attracted to every guy in the locker room, but if some guy does catch his eye, you better believe he'll look. No different than he is walking down the street and a cute guy has a nice ***. Even at a nudist colony, hard-on's tend to happen because the human body operates on a subconscious level. If a person is gay, they can get hard from the male form. I can prove this, but please just trust me on the nudist colony thing. My fiance is a nudist. Google it and find out yourself if you don't believe me.

Quote:
We had coed bathrooms, including shower stalls, in college. It was never a big issue.


Adam Lambert was right, there is a double standard. It's generally accepted for females to engage in lesbian acts. You'll find it in ****, spring break, movies, and every place in between. Madonna can kiss Ms Spears but if Adam does it, it's wrong. That's what I mean.

So it doesn't shock me to hear that most girls didn't have an issue with it. It's because of all the reasons I listed plus women to seem to be less homophobic.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 3:50pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#51 Feb 02 2010 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Google it and find out yourself if you don't believe me.

I think you're vastly missing the point. Everyone believes you, without need of google, that the sight of naked people can make other people horny. The question is "Why does that matter?" How is my erection going to cause the world to explode? ...in bed.
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