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#377 Feb 03 2010 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
So you ask your son a leading question to get an expected response.

Hey, just because you were outwitted by a ten year old, don't go blaming the question. Not my fault you don't understand elementary school level civics.

In other news: Fun chart detailing the deficits. Let's all ignore Varus crying because it was in the NYT and actually look at it. The largest single source of the current deficit was spending under Bush (and the Republican Congress). Not just the wars which were unfunded and pushed out of the budget using supplementary spending but also the massive (unpaid for) Medicare Prescription Part D program and the (also unpaid for) Bush tax cuts.

The second largest source of the current deficit is lost revenue from the recession, dating back to 2007. The third largest source was programs enacted by Bush and supported by Obama. Programs solely created in this administration make up a notable minority of the deficit.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#378REDACTED, Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 10:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Joph,
#379 Feb 03 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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Do you know this means most small businesses will receive a tax increase because they generally show the businesses income on their personal taxes?
o
So yes by throwing in that 250k-200k mark Obama is essentially raising the taxes on like 75% of the nations employers.
Wait, it's Obama's fault that these owners are idiots, and don't know how to properly file taxes?
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#380 Feb 03 2010 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Quote:
Do you know this means most small businesses will receive a tax increase because they generally show the businesses income on their personal taxes?
o
So yes by throwing in that 250k-200k mark Obama is essentially raising the taxes on like 75% of the nations employers.
Wait, it's Obama's fault that these owners are idiots, and don't know how to properly file taxes?


According to Varie, Obama is the root of all evil.

The Bible according to Varie:

Genesis 1

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness Obama was upon the face of the deep.
#381 Feb 03 2010 at 10:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
And when you talk about programs "solely" created in this administration that's such a weak argument even for you. W created the stimulus, which I disagreed with, and Obama jacks it up but because he didn't actually create it you think you can get by with saying "solely" created.

Bush didn't create the stimulus. That was a "solely" Obama administration thing. Bush did enact the bank bailouts which Obama has not expanded. I don't think you know what you're arguing about.

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Now let's look at some real numbers from Obama's first year

Why? Are you afraid to discuss the deficit and where it came from? You're running away from this discussion in a real hurry.

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(also unpaid for) Bush tax cuts.

This is such a liberal tax and spend line.

Hrm? If you're taking money out of the pot, you should account for it, correct? Bush and the GOP cut taxes and failed to reduce spending to account for it. In fact, they vastly increased spending via the unbudgeted wars and a massive Medicare expansion with deferred funding. Funny how the GOP is so opposed to PAYGO provisions and try to justify it by saying they don't want to raise taxes. Instead, they just massively added the the deficit for years with absolutely no plan at all on how to pay for it.

But you guys were silent about all that for years. You didn't say a peep. I'd say "funny" but really it's just pathetic.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#382 Feb 03 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Quote:
Do you know this means most small businesses will receive a tax increase because they generally show the businesses income on their personal taxes?
o
So yes by throwing in that 250k-200k mark Obama is essentially raising the taxes on like 75% of the nations employers.
Wait, it's Obama's fault that these owners are idiots, and don't know how to properly file taxes?


Now hold on just a minute here. Are you saying that most small business owners don't file as LLCs? I don't know many small business owners well enough to ask, but I was always taught in my classes that if you're not a LLC you're begging to get sued. As a corporation you can lose the business, but your personal assets are untouchable. As a sole proprietor, someone slips in your business or on the sidewalk outside, they can sue you for everything you own. The only issue with establishing an LLC is the cost to do it (less than $250, and that's hiring someone to do it), the yearly cost to renew it (a few hundred bucks), and the fact that you as a person get taxed, as well as the business (as you are separate entities).

But that was one of the first things I was taught in college: if you're going to start your own business, incorporate ASAP.

The relation to what Varus is saying is that business owners will NOT show business income on their personal income, because they are separate.

The relation to what Xsarus is saying is, yes, if people are sole proprietors and declaring business income as their own they are likely idiots.
#383 Feb 03 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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Do you know this means most small businesses will receive a tax increase because they generally show the businesses income on their personal taxes?

So yes by throwing in that 250k-200k mark Obama is essentially raising the taxes on like 75% of the nations employers.


I told you before, learn how to do your ******* taxes. On second thought, don't. I really don't mind you overpaying due to your incompetence.
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#384 Feb 03 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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I liked how Obama told the Pubbies that if we really want to cut spending we need to look at Medicare and Medicaid.

Cause, you know. All their supporters are old.

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#385REDACTED, Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 11:03 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#386 Feb 03 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Poor analogy. Tax cuts don't take money out of the pot.

It does in a projected sense. And you're trying pretty hard to avoid answering the obvious: If you cut taxes, shouldn't you account for the changes in your budgeting?

And why did the GOP completely fail to do this, thus leaving America to pick up the bill down the road?

And why are you screaming about the bill now when you were silent about it for years?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#387REDACTED, Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 11:32 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#388 Feb 03 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
But yes you do have to change your budgeting if you were expecting something that isn't going to materialize.

You're failing to carry this through. Did the GOP do this?

There's no "Democratic Congress!" to hide behind here. The tax cuts, the lack of war budgeting, the Medicare Part D plan... these were Bush projects passed under the Republican controlled Congress. These things had a massive impact on today's deficit. More so than anything Obama has done. When are you going to hold them accountable for it?
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Belkira wrote:
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#389REDACTED, Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 1:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Joph,
#390 Feb 03 2010 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
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They were held accountable when they were thrown out of office. That's how we do it.


Thrown out of office by the 2-term limit. That's accountability to the people!
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#391 Feb 03 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
That's just a lie.

No, but whatever allows you to dodge the issue.
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They were held accountable when they were thrown out of office.

So you voted Democratic in the 2004, 2006 and 2008 general elections?

I asked when you would hold them accountable.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#392REDACTED, Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 3:06 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Joph,
#393 Feb 03 2010 at 3:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
When would you?

Probably before I started a long screeching whine about the other guys and the deficit.

I've never really made the deficit a big part of my politics or criticisms so I'm feeling fine with who I am. You (and the rest of those in your camp), whine and kvetch constantly about Obama and the deficit and yet seem incredibly recalcitrant to throw stones at your own party. In fact, I'd ask why you even believe the GOP has any sincere interest in shrinking the deficit. Sure, they talk a good game but when they were given control of the executive and legislative branch, they jumped on the chance to expand the deficit by a massive amount with absolutely no plan to cover it. They weren't even "tax & spend" liberals, they were "borrow, borrow and borrow some more & spend" Republicans. And so now... what? You think these Republicans are suddenly way different than those Republicans?

Seriously? Are you five years old? Do you believe in fairies and Santa Claus as well?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#394REDACTED, Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 4:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#395 Feb 03 2010 at 4:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
But every other Democrat does it for you so you don't have to concern yourself with it.

Good for them, I guess? I'm talking about me and you.

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Because I know Obama and the Democrats have no intention of doing this.

And, provably from the last GOP Congress & president, neither does the GOP. So ******** about the Democrats doesn't answer the question: Why do you think the GOP is sincere about this?

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The deficit represents 12.3 percent of gross domestic product and results from the federal government spending $3.9 trillion—an increase of 32 percent over 2008—while collecting less than $2.2 trillion in revenue. Most tellingly, the public debt stands at 58.7 percent of GDP, compared to 40.8 percent in 2008.

You realize what that means, right? The sizable majority of the problem existed before Obama took office. From a surplus to a massive deficit -- under the GOP.

Which brings me back again to the question: What dreamworld do you live in where you actually believe the GOP has any plan or interest in fixing this, a problem they largely created in the first place?
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Belkira wrote:
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#396 Feb 03 2010 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
Joph,

Quote:
These things had a massive impact on today's deficit. More so than anything Obama has done.


That's just a lie.


Look at the ******* numbers dimwit.
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#397REDACTED, Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 6:10 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Joph,
#398 Feb 03 2010 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Lies.

Explain to me how the tax cuts, two wars and Medicare expansion were to be paid for and what the GOP did to make sure they didn't impact the deficit.

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Because they know they will lose their office if they don't, just like they did in 2007.

So your master plan is that the GOP fucked up so badly last time, they're sure not to fuck up again?

Brilliant!

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How long will you, and Obama, continue to blame W for the current economy?

I'm discussing the deficit. Are you denying that the majority of the deficit was created under Bush and the GOP due to their legislation and policies?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#399 Feb 03 2010 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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I like the 'new' tactic; declare anything you don't want to believe, even when faced with facts proving yourself wrong, as lies, then state opinion and conjecture as fact. I love it! Where do I sign up?

It is somewhat more entertaining than just ignoring questions.



Edited, Feb 3rd 2010 7:43pm by Dozer
#400 Feb 03 2010 at 6:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Master Dozer wrote:
I like the 'new' tactic; declare anything you don't want to believe, even with faced with facts proving yourself wrong, as lies, then state opinion and conjecture as fact. I love it! Where do I sign up?


Smiley: dnp
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#401 Feb 03 2010 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
This just in: Varus is actually Gene Ray. Exhibit A Exhibit B

Tell me you can't see the resemblance between Varus's brand of incoherence and that of Time Cube.
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