Burqas and veilsFollow

If you're gonna ban an item of clothing, then ffs ban fat girls from wearing trousers that are too tight.

That would do far more good for the well being of the general population imo.

Thank you Paulsol, that's helpful.

Like you Sammy, I'm torn and go back and forth on it.

Nexa

My opinion is that Burqas should be firmly banned where other forms of dress that cover the face are barred.

We live in a society where showing the face is part of our culture and is required for many documents (Passport, driving license and others). You are banned from wearing bike helmets in some public areas. We cannot on one hand condone the Burqa and deny others the ability to cover themselves.

Headscarves are fine.

Edited for clarity.

Edited, Jan 26th 2010 8:55pm by GwynapNud

The proposal is banning face-veils in Hospitals, Schools and on Public Transport.

France has very strict secular laws forbidding any role for religion in government or public services - the laws are almost unchanged since the Revolution.

Sounds reasonable to me.

I thought France had already passed the law, but I might be wrong.

I'm a bit torn too, to be honest. In a way, I think it's fair enough in the context of France. We're a secular country with a strict ban on religious symbols in public buildings, we're very much anti-proselytism, we're very pro-human rights... And I do think the Burka and the Niqab are not very cool, as a concept and as a reality.

Having said that... This move is clearly political and slightly racist. There are 10 women wearing the burka in France, and a few thousand wearing the niqab, should we really legislate for so few people? And should we ban people from wearing a bin bag on their head in the street? From people dressing up as clowns? What about nuns outfit? It's hard to justify from a legal point of view. Banning stuff in public buildings is one thing, but public places, it's quite another.

So yeah, I think that while I dislike Niqabs and Burkas, I don't think we should be legislating against wearing them in public places.

oh, you're talking about motorcycle helmets, not bike helmets as I understood it.

@Samira...

Edited, Jan 26th 2010 2:50pm by Xsarus

Even so, I'll stand by my statement: a motorcycle helmet is still less concealing than a ski mask.

Not unlike Christianity, there are many nuances to Islam. What makes this issue especially sensitive, I suppose, is that it's the more strict observers who are being targeted.

I know a few Muslim women who never go veiled at all except to mosque. I know, or have met, one older lady who wears the full-on chador even in her own home. It's largely cultural, as I said upstream.

I used to see Somali women sometimes in Boston who wore a niqab in a public space. I'm against legislating how people should dress in public places. In airports and such areas where they have to identify themselves, they can always go to a female only place and then have the women unveil themselves for identification.

Given France's recent history, I think this is more about a culture war than a religious one. I don't think this is really about public safety and more about traditional fears about encroaching foreigners. I think the public safety angle is a way of people pretending it isn't about culture.

Sarko is just making sure the National Front voters are still on his side come 2012.

Niqab and Burka.

Just so we're clear. The hijab, veils and headscarf are not in any way targeted.

It is very much about culture. But it rubs both ways.

If I visited an Islamic country I would wear a headscarf and cover my arms. I would show the incumbant culture some respect and try to blend.
By wearing a burqa in a western society, the wearer is rubbing against the culture and inviting segregation and comment. Just as I would if I walked around in a miniskirt and bra in most middle eastern cultures.

The problem is ... so many of us do go to middle eastern countries and act as we please

I don't think it should be about banning or excepting any specific type of clothing. The religious or cultural significance should be irrelevant in either direction. If there exists a legitimate reason to restrict certain types of clothing in certain areas then such restrictions are perfectly acceptable. If, for example, you pass a law stating that banks can require you to take off any clothing which conceals your face, then that ought to be applicable regardless of what is concealing your face.

Once you start legislating against specific types of clothing or making exceptions for them based on their religious relevance, you end up going down a rabbit hole that's just going to get you mired in controversy. If your law is defined in a way that makes sense within a given legitimate (ie: neither pro nor anti religious) purpose then it should be applicable to all cases.

You aren't outlawing burqas. You're outlawing head coverings which prevent people from seeing your face. IMO, it's certainly legitimate to restrict such things in areas where security measures are more important.