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Campaign Finance Rules ChangedFollow

#1 Jan 21 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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CQ Politics wrote:
The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that corporations, nonprofits and labor unions can use their own treasuries to fund political advertisements and influence federal elections during the crucial days before citizens vote.

The 5-to-4 decision reverses previous interpretations of election law by federal agencies and will have a huge impact on the 2010 elections because it will allow companies to spend millions to help elect and defeat candidates for Congress. The court did rule that such new spending would have to be disclosed.

The decision overturns the previously defined distinctions between corporate and individual expenditures in American elections.
[...]
Corporations and unions will still be banned from donating directly to federal candidates, which was outlawed in 1907.

But the decision will allow such moneyed interests from doing the next best thing — spending unlimited capital to expressly advocate the election of candidates for Congress and the White House.

The split was (near as I can tell), the "conservative" faction plus Kennedy affirming and the "liberal" faction dissenting. The actual ruling is a bunch of "So-and-So affirms in part and dissents in part..." but that seems like it was the ultimate split.
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#2 Jan 21 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Goddamn activist justices. Smiley: oyvey

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#3 Jan 21 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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All the transparency of an indirect democracy combined with the propaganda proliferation of a direct democracy. Best of both worlds!
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#4 Jan 21 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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How is it transparent? The ruling specifically states that they will not be required to identify contributors.

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#5 Jan 21 2010 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
How is it transparent? The ruling specifically states that they will not be required to identify contributors.



Precisely.
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#6 Jan 21 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
Hmm, everyone in this thread is rated Excellent. If my degree in premature statistical modeling is worth anything, that indicates that posting in this thread will further my quest to become a sage. But what seemingly relevant thing do I say?

Just what the rich need, more power. Plutocracy is a hellish thing.
#7 Jan 21 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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Way to make your elections even more like a meaningless circus. Too bad.
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#8 Jan 21 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Curious how much will actually change in practice.
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I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#9REDACTED, Posted: Jan 21 2010 at 1:08 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) bsphil,
#10 Jan 21 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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I've always beena supporter of allowing corporations to donate. However, I feel they should be limited in the monetary amount. And I don't mean something like $200,000 limit, but $5,000-10,000.
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#11 Jan 21 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Curious how much will actually change in practice.


A **** load. Corporations (and unions) can now completely carpet bomb the airwaves with any kind of political advertisement that they want.
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#12REDACTED, Posted: Jan 21 2010 at 1:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) punk,
#13 Jan 21 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
punk,

Quote:
Corporations (and unions) can now completely carpet bomb the airwaves with any kind of political advertisement that they want.


Unions could do it before this ruling. All this did was level the playing field for corporations.



Even if that were true, how is that any better?
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#14REDACTED, Posted: Jan 21 2010 at 1:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Punk,
#15 Jan 21 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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Out of curiosity, what are the rules around foreign governments/citizens doing this?
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#16 Jan 21 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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When politicians that support big business are in power that's going to be much better for the economy than the unions stranglehold on these politicians.


Pretending that you are aware of how things work for a moment, please tell me how that would help the US economy?
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#17 Jan 21 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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Pretending that you are aware of how things work for a moment, please tell me how that would help the US economy?


Because Big Business will make more money. Then they give management more bonuses. Then management is able to afford more immigrant housekeepers. Then the housekeepers spend their pittance on imported goods from China. So obviously it will lead to more minimum wage jobs or in the case of housekeepers below minimum wage jobs.
#18 Jan 21 2010 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent
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PunkFloyd, King of Bards wrote:
publiusvarus wrote:
punk,

Quote:
Corporations (and unions) can now completely carpet bomb the airwaves with any kind of political advertisement that they want.


Unions could do it before this ruling. All this did was level the playing field for corporations.



Even if that were true, how is that any better?


Because it's "fair"? Just a wild guess...

The larger issue, and what I'm going to assume was the motivation for this change, has been the rise of relatively inexpensive communications over the last few decades. The original restriction against large money organizations directly involving themselves in political advertising was to prevent media blitzing right up to the day of the election. Today, that's happening anyway. It's just being done on the internet, and/or being funded by private organizations which don't fit into the criteria of the previous rules. The ability of a wealthy individual (or a group of just semi wealthy, or a large group of average joes) to get massive amounts of opinion messaging out there in front of voters is much greater today than it was 30 years ago.


The rise of well funded organizations which no purpose other than to affect the outcomes of elections has made the restrictions seem silly. Either you have to find a way to apply them to everyone (which has first amendment implications), or you let everyone have the same right to political speech.
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#19 Jan 21 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Because it's "fair"? Just a wild guess...

The larger issue, and what I'm going to assume was the motivation for this change, has been the rise of relatively inexpensive communications over the last few decades. The original restriction against large money organizations directly involving themselves in political advertising was to prevent media blitzing right up to the day of the election. Today, that's happening anyway. It's just being done on the internet, and/or being funded by private organizations which don't fit into the criteria of the previous rules. The ability of a wealthy individual (or a group of just semi wealthy, or a large group of average joes) to get massive amounts of opinion messaging out there in front of voters is much greater today than it was 30 years ago.


Right, because we all have enough money to purchase prime-time television advertisements that will be branded into the brain of millions of mind-numbed idiots who believe everything they see on TV but think the internet is full of conspiracies.

#20 Jan 21 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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soulshaver wrote:
Right, because we all have enough money to purchase prime-time television advertisements that will be branded into the brain of millions of mind-numbed idiots who believe everything they see on TV but think the internet is full of conspiracies.


I think the rise in the number of people who believe everything they see on the internet has made that somewhat of a moot point. Don't you agree?
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#21 Jan 21 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
soulshaver wrote:
Right, because we all have enough money to purchase prime-time television advertisements that will be branded into the brain of millions of mind-numbed idiots who believe everything they see on TV but think the internet is full of conspiracies.


I think the rise in the number of people who believe everything they see on the internet has made that somewhat of a moot point. Don't you agree?
You see this number rising?
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#22 Jan 21 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Because it's "fair"? Just a wild guess...

The larger issue, and what I'm going to assume was the motivation for this change, has been the rise of relatively inexpensive communications over the last few decades. The original restriction against large money organizations directly involving themselves in political advertising was to prevent media blitzing right up to the day of the election. Today, that's happening anyway. It's just being done on the internet, and/or being funded by private organizations which don't fit into the criteria of the previous rules. The ability of a wealthy individual (or a group of just semi wealthy, or a large group of average joes) to get massive amounts of opinion messaging out there in front of voters is much greater today than it was 30 years ago.


And so the solution to this is to throw open the floodgates and let the institutions spend limitless bags of money for their interests? That's just throwing fuel on the fire.

Quote:

The rise of well funded organizations which no purpose other than to affect the outcomes of elections has made the restrictions seem silly. Either you have to find a way to apply them to everyone (which has first amendment implications), or you let everyone have the same right to political speech.


Everyone does have the same right to political speech. However, corporations and unions are not people, they are abstract entities and should be treated as such. Let the individuals of the institutions say and spend how they want, just like regular citizens.
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#23 Jan 21 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
gbaji wrote:
soulshaver wrote:
Right, because we all have enough money to purchase prime-time television advertisements that will be branded into the brain of millions of mind-numbed idiots who believe everything they see on TV but think the internet is full of conspiracies.


I think the rise in the number of people who believe everything they see on the internet has made that somewhat of a moot point. Don't you agree?
You see this number rising?


Over the last decade? Absolutely.
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#24 Jan 21 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
gbaji wrote:
soulshaver wrote:
Right, because we all have enough money to purchase prime-time television advertisements that will be branded into the brain of millions of mind-numbed idiots who believe everything they see on TV but think the internet is full of conspiracies.


I think the rise in the number of people who believe everything they see on the internet has made that somewhat of a moot point. Don't you agree?
You see this number rising?


Over the last decade? Absolutely.
I don't think you have a very good sense of the pulse of the internet. Or society for that matter.
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#25 Jan 21 2010 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
gbaji wrote:
soulshaver wrote:
Right, because we all have enough money to purchase prime-time television advertisements that will be branded into the brain of millions of mind-numbed idiots who believe everything they see on TV but think the internet is full of conspiracies.


I think the rise in the number of people who believe everything they see on the internet has made that somewhat of a moot point. Don't you agree?
You see this number rising?


Over the last decade? Absolutely.
I don't think you have a very good sense of the pulse of the internet. Or society for that matter.


Really?

It took me all of 10 seconds to disprove you. Of course. I'd have to trust the internet to not be lying to me...
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#26 Jan 21 2010 at 3:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
gbaji wrote:
soulshaver wrote:
Right, because we all have enough money to purchase prime-time television advertisements that will be branded into the brain of millions of mind-numbed idiots who believe everything they see on TV but think the internet is full of conspiracies.

I think the rise in the number of people who believe everything they see on the internet has made that somewhat of a moot point. Don't you agree?
You see this number rising?

Over the last decade? Absolutely.
I don't think you have a very good sense of the pulse of the internet. Or society for that matter.

Well, the sheer mass availability of the Internet to every illiterate fool makes this true. Many bored housewives and teenage thuggees don't know enough to pass over all the scams, fraud and misinformation that's being pumped these days. And the reverse is true, too - now any shmuck can set up a legitimate-looking website for $25 and push anything they want. It's a lot more prevalent than it was ten years ago, though the trend may be in the process of changing as the new Internet generation is reaching puberty.
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