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Why social engineering doesn't work and a question.Follow

#1 Jan 02 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Sub-Default
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At what point do people have to take responsibility for their actions?

After reading this Link

The best part of the article: "As a result, desperate homeowners have sent payments to banks in often-futile efforts to keep their homes, which some see as wasting dollars they could have saved in preparation for moving to cheaper rental residences. Some borrowers have seen their credit tarnished while falsely assuming that loan modifications involved no negative reports to credit agencies.

Some experts argue the program has impeded economic recovery by delaying a wrenching yet cleansing process through which borrowers give up unaffordable homes and banks fully reckon with their disastrous bets on real estate, enabling money to flow more freely through the financial system."

Yes, losing your home is horrible, but you bought something you could not afford and then wanted the government to save you which has made the problem worse and as a result the inevitable has been delayed which is now affecting other people who had nothing to do with your stupid actions.


And for something a little closer to home (My Home)

Link

This one is personal to me because I actually know one of the couple's who have been affected by this.

For those that do not know basicly what happened is a bunch of Liberal's here in California decided that a little more than a decade ago that they would through government help and social programs move people who lived into bad neighborhoods into better one's.

Liberals believed that giving something to people who had not worked for it or earned it would make the world a better place and with no surprise to any sane person with common sense (That means someone who isn't Liberal) it didn't work

Not only did it not work but this social engineering has lowered the property value of entire neighborhoods by raising the crime rate.

And because of this the elderly couple I know who have lived and worked in Antioch for decades who had raised their children in their house they had worked and saved up for are now afraid to go out at night.













Edited, Jan 2nd 2010 12:42pm by ThiefX
#2 Jan 02 2010 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
Once we hold the thieving banks accountable for setting up ARMs, maybe?
#3ThiefX, Posted: Jan 02 2010 at 11:11 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So it's the bank's fault and let's not forget about the evil credit card companies.
#4 Jan 02 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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NY Times wrote:
As a result, desperate homeowners have sent payments to banks in often-futile efforts to keep their homes, which some see as wasting dollars they could have saved in preparation for moving to cheaper rental residences. Some borrowers have seen their credit tarnished while falsely assuming that loan modifications involved no negative reports to credit agencies.

The second one can't really be helped, especially if the people didn't ask about credit reporting.

But the second and especially the first raise the question -- prepared to move after what? Selling their homes? To whom? After foreclosing on their homes? Well, good luck getting another home after that (or even renting since they do run credit on you) and I'm pretty sure foreclosures look worse on your credit than modifications. The premise of the program seems sound enough although obviously not everyone will have the same results based on their own situations.

The most obvious problem that springs to mind is that a program which may have helped people in a stable economy where the housing/mortgage market was your primary concern now has to deal with the employment market and its effects not only on individuals paying their mortgages but also the market in general.

Edited, Jan 2nd 2010 11:26am by Jophiel
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#5 Jan 02 2010 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
At what point do people have to take responsibility for their actions?


Friday.
#6 Jan 02 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Why social engineering doesn't work and a question.


Social engineering certainly works.

Also, basing pricing on inflated rates in a post crash environment is a good way to lose investments, what a shocker.
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#7 Jan 02 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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ThiefX wrote:
At what point do people have to take responsibility for their actions?

From Day 1.
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#8 Jan 02 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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This, in response to why the womens homes were searched.

the second article wrote:
“From the beginning, Antioch’s community policing efforts have had a single goal and motivation: to address persistent criminal, drug and nuisance problems and to improve the quality of life for all residents,” Nerland said via e-mail.
Is this the social engineering you speak of?
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#9 Jan 02 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Elinda wrote:
This, in response to why the womens homes were searched.

the second article wrote:
“From the beginning, Antioch’s community policing efforts have had a single goal and motivation: to address persistent criminal, drug and nuisance problems and to improve the quality of life for all residents,” Nerland said via e-mail.
Is this the social engineering you speak of?
How... abhorrent?
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If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#10 Jan 02 2010 at 10:57 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
For those that do not know basicly what happened is a bunch of Liberal's here in California decided that a little more than a decade ago that they would through government help and social programs move people who lived into bad neighborhoods into better one's.


You mean they moved ethnic minorities into white neighborhoods? I wonder, why would they do that...

Screenshot


Wait. No I don't. It's either that or slavery repatriations.
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#11 Jan 02 2010 at 11:04 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Elinda wrote:
This, in response to why the womens homes were searched.

the second article wrote:
“From the beginning, Antioch’s community policing efforts have had a single goal and motivation: to address persistent criminal, drug and nuisance problems and to improve the quality of life for all residents,” Nerland said via e-mail.
Is this the social engineering you speak of?
How... abhorrent?
Well it's not abhorrent. "To improve the quality of life for ALL residents". It's basically the goal of social engineering eh.

It's stupid term invented for it's derogatory connotation. Society is social engineering, however you look at it. Whether it's section 8 neighborhoods or getting fined for jaywalking.






Edited, Jan 3rd 2010 6:12am by Elinda
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#12ThiefX, Posted: Jan 02 2010 at 11:51 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The sad part is you thought you were being clever.
#13 Jan 03 2010 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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If they are all white their arguments are not valid?


Correct. Until you fix generational racial & economic inequality, so called "reverse-racism" can't exist.

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#14 Jan 03 2010 at 12:56 AM Rating: Good
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ThiefX wrote:
Because their white then it must be racism?


They're. They are. They're.

Quote:
Their Black.


See above.

That will be all.
#15 Jan 03 2010 at 1:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think that a year of Obama is going to get us out of the crushing economic disaster.

Now it's interesting that for years the republicans blamed all the economic problems of Dubya on Clinton and yet somehow now they blame Obama. I think they see Bush as completely impotent--eight years of the economy swaying in the wind, only affected by the democratic presidents that bookended his administration.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2010 2:14am by Annabella
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Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#16 Jan 03 2010 at 4:01 AM Rating: Good
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I think what I find most frustrating about thief is not the blinding stupidity or the complete lack of perspective, but rather the fact that he doesn't actually ever say anything, preferring to insult some imaginary liberals, whatever that means.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2010 4:11am by Xsarus
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#17ThiefX, Posted: Jan 03 2010 at 9:34 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) And what I find most frustrating is Liberals who won't or because they cannot answer a question they just say your stupid.
#18 Jan 03 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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ThiefX wrote:
And what I find most frustrating is Liberals who won't or because they cannot answer a question they just say your stupid.

Arguing with liberals is like arguing with a retarded 5 year old.
/supremeeyeroll
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#19ThiefX, Posted: Jan 03 2010 at 10:14 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No a year of Obama won't get us out of the economic mess were in but as it's been shown time and time again it's making it worse.
#20 Jan 03 2010 at 6:53 PM Rating: Good
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First, George W did inherit a recession from Clinton (btw Clinton spent 8 years getting credit for an economy he had little or nothing to do with), 2nd before W and his economic team could even begin to do anything substantial about it we got hit on 9/11 (btw Clinton spent 8 years ignoring the growing islamic threat) which sent that economy into a nose dive, 3rd and I know this one is gonna **** off a bunch of you liberals who don't want to admit this but W also had to deal with the Enron collapse left to him by Clinton (Yes the collapse happened under Bush but what led to the collapse was happening for years under Clinton) and 4th for years senators like Barney frank and Maxine Waters were forcing banks to give into giving out high risks loans.
You can't have it both ways though. Essentially what your saying is that over the past 20 years or so, democratic presidents have been responsible for all the bad things that have happened but not for any of the good stuff, regardless of when they were in power. It's nonsense.

Quote:
The reason I don't like W is far different than you and other Liberals though. I don't like W not because I think he is some evil moron that wanted to steal the world's oil. I Don't think he masterminded the 9/11 attacks or he wanted to make black people drown in Katrina.
This is not why anyone except maybe complete lunatics didn't like W. Liberals do not think this, crazy people do, and they are a very small minority.

Quote:
I don't like W because I don't think we had any business in Iraq and history will judge George W on that but I also think that all of the Democrats who voted for the War using the same Intelligence that W did and then claimed that they were lied too and began screaming "we Lost the war" and "It's Over" the second the war started going bad just to try and gain political points should be judged by history right along side W.

I do actually think George W is a good guy who believed that what he was doing was the right thing.

And my biggest problem with W is that he abandoned just about every principle of fiscal conservative (W was a big social Conservative but not so much on the Economic side) which is one of the many reason we are in the mess we are in today.
This is pretty much the reasons everyone has. So good for you, you probably agree with the majority?

Quote:
And that is my biggest complaints about Obama, right after Unqualified and his ideas are idiotic and will turn us into another socialist country is that he doesn't seem to understand that #1 the money he is spending isn't his and #2 you can't spend more than you have.
There isn't anything evil about socialist ideals, however It's a valid reason to dislike someone's policies, given that you disagree with the approach.

Quote:
And what I find most frustrating is Liberals who won't or because they cannot answer a question they just say your stupid.
I find it amusing you thought I was arguing with you in my previous post.
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#21 Jan 03 2010 at 7:27 PM Rating: Good
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ThiefX wrote:
Quote:
They're. They are. They're.


Fixed. Is that all you got? pointing out I by accident I used the word "their" incorrectly.


Once is an accident. Twice is illiteracy, or just plain laziness.

If you can't be bothered to take an interest in composing your diatribes in such a way that you don't come across as an illiterate slob, I can't be bothered to read them in their entirety, much less make any effort at responding to the ideas that you are doing such a ****-poor job of conveying with your mangled verbiage.

Presentation matters.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2010 5:36pm by Ambrya
#22 Jan 03 2010 at 8:05 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Once is an accident. Twice is illiteracy, or just plain laziness.

If you can't be bothered to take an interest in composing your diatribes in such a way that you don't come across as an illiterate slob, I can't be bothered to read them in their entirety, much less make any effort at responding to the ideas that you are doing such a ****-poor job of conveying with your mangled verbiage.

Presentation matters.


Translation: I'm a moron who cannot come up with an answer so I will pick out one word that was used incorrectly in an attempt to make myself feel smarter and will hope and pray that nobody notices that I have made two posts on this thread and have yet to make an intelligent argument.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2010 9:11pm by ThiefX
#23 Jan 03 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Good
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ThiefX wrote:
Quote:
Once is an accident. Twice is illiteracy, or just plain laziness.

If you can't be bothered to take an interest in composing your diatribes in such a way that you don't come across as an illiterate slob, I can't be bothered to read them in their entirety, much less make any effort at responding to the ideas that you are doing such a ****-poor job of conveying with your mangled verbiage.

Presentation matters.


Translation: I'm a moron who cannot come up with an answer so I will pick out one word that was used incorrectly in an attempt to make myself feel smarter and will hope and pray that nobody notices that I have made two posts on this thread and have yet to make an intelligent argument.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2010 9:11pm by ThiefX


I haven't responded to the content of your original post because I never bothered to read it. Why? Because the first post I saw in this thread was the one I first replied to, which was a travesty. I used "their/they're" merely as an example. There were many other words misspelled or incorrectly used in your subsequent replies, and your punctuation and capitalization were atrocious.

I'm 100% serious about this. Why should I waste MY important time attempting to decipher your lazy writing? What makes you think your thoughts are special enough to merit that sort of effort on my part?

Clearly, you don't actually care about what you are writing. If you did, you'd make an effort to present it in such a way that conveys an impression of intelligence, education, and thoughtfulness. Instead, you just spew forth hastily and lazily slapped together words. If YOU don't care about your thoughts, why on earth should I care about your thoughts?

So I say again, presentation matters. You start presenting yourself as someone whose thoughts and writing are worthy of my time, effort and attention, and I'll start putting time, effort and attention into reading and responding to you. It's really that simple.

#24 Jan 03 2010 at 8:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
.

First, George W did inherit a recession from Clinton (btw Clinton spent 8 years getting credit for an economy he had little or nothing to do with), 2nd before W and his economic team could even begin to do anything substantial about it we got hit on 9/11 (btw Clinton spent 8 years ignoring the growing islamic threat) which sent that economy into a nose dive, 3rd and I know this one is gonna **** off a bunch of you liberals who don't want to admit this but W also had to deal with the Enron collapse left to him by Clinton (Yes the collapse happened under Bush but what led to the collapse was happening for years under Clinton) and 4th for years senators like Barney frank and Maxine Waters were forcing banks to give into giving out high risks loans.


Poor, weak republican victims. You can't deal with the overwhelming power of the democratic party, can you? So you are saying that even when the GOP were in the executive branch and both congress and the senate, everything that happened was the problem of the democratic party. But that doesn't apply to the democrats who are in the same situation.

Man, you might want to elect a stronger leader.
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Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#25ThiefX, Posted: Jan 03 2010 at 8:28 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That's 3 posts.
#26 Jan 03 2010 at 8:44 PM Rating: Decent
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ThiefX wrote:
That's 3 posts.

For the record, what you had pre-edit was 100% wrong.
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