Extradition and thingsFollow

I don't understand the mentality that says that if a person knowingly broke the law but meant no harm they shouldn't be punished. (Speaking more to the hacker than the drug mule, as I don't know anything about that case.)

Does the UK not extradite people for trial?

I'm guessing that the punishment for the noted crimes are not secretive. The accusers were given trials and found guilty. While it may be the sentences are overly harsh, inhumane, stupid or just plain unnecessary - they are not really unjust.

I'm trying to figure out how a decade in prison equates to being executed. Especially since the OP already established that both "criminals" were just innocent angels who never meant any harm.

That's because you're a repulsive human being. Frankly, just reading your disgusting little opinions makes me want to retch.

I cant believe the OP is comparing jail time to the death penalty.

With smuggling drugs on planes, it is very rarely the people carrying the drugs that stand to gain the most from the sales. They are pretty much messengers.

Imagine if I sent a bomb via the mail to someone who was going to use it to blow up something and enroute the postman got caught and given a severe punishment for having possesion of a bomb. Me the instigator of this event would be free to carry on my business, and perhaps try again, the end user of the bomb (equivalent to the drug distributor in country) is also in place and free to carry on his trade.

Now with regards to the chinese situation, the people manufacturing the drugs and sending them into the country are unaffected apart from losing a small amount of drugs, they will try again. Their contacts in country are also unaffected, all they need to do is wait for the next guy to come along. The actual root problem has not been addressed at all, I doubt the people who sent him give a **** about him being killed, just a small cashflow issue from a lost sale will annoy them.

With the internet hacker the issue is where the crime took place and the applicable laws. As far as I am aware the hacker was in the UK, as such the UK courts should deal with it as it is a crime occuring inside the UK. Saying he broke US law is stupid, he is bound by the laws of the country he resides in not any others, you dont see people extradited from the US for drinking alcohol which is illegal in saudi do you?

An example is pornography is technically illegal in china and can carry a 2yr jail sentance, If you emailed some to a chinese national or to the govt, how would you like to be extradited from where you live to face a 2yr jail charge?

Now my issues with these 2 cases are not that they are innocent of any crimes, but that the actions taken against them are totally disproportionate to the actual crime committed.

I can't believe we've made it this far without a reference to the opium wars.

No, wait, I can.

Edited, Jan 1st 2010 10:33am by Kavekk

Even pretending that the postman would be arrested, in what fairytale land do you live where the guy mailing the bomb wouldn't be arrested if possible? If you're really worried about the guys who are distributing the drugs, press your government to find them and send them to China as well. I'm sure the government there would love to have 'em.

This was, as stated above, a horrible analogy.


You're honestly comparing breaking into servers on US soil with drinking in the UK and its effects on Saudi Arabia? Did you want to withdraw and rethink that point before more people respond to it?

As Poldaran notes, the actual crime is breaking into the US servers, which are located on US soil. The crime is committed at the keyboard end but the keyboard being in the UK doesn't make it any less of a crime against the US. To use your postman analogy in an intelligent manner, it's as though I mailed a bomb to London. The relevant part of the legal code is...

He intentionally obtained unauthorized access to computers belonging to the US government and therefore broke US law. He was also silly eough to do this from a country that actually tries to keep amicable extradition agreements with the US instead of doing it from Russia or China like a sane hacker.

Never misunderestimate stupidity.



Edited, Jan 1st 2010 2:03pm by Timelordwho

Bipolar disorder is associated with taking unreasonable risks and being detached from reality, especially the consequences of your behavior. Now, I don't know if that is the reason but if he was fully manic, it'd definitely be an issue. It'd be an issue of criminal responsibility. But besides the psychiatric diagnosis, I wouldn't say good riddance to a small time drug smuggler b/c I think the punishment is disproportionately severe to the crime. At the same time, I wouldn't necessarily think it was effective to try to intervene in China when someone breaks the law there.



Edited, Jan 1st 2010 6:20pm by Annabella

Now my issues with these 2 cases are not that they are innocent of any crimes, but that the actions taken against them are totally disproportionate to the actual crime committed.

OK maybe analogies made may have been crap, the above statement is what I was trying to get at, so in simple terms do you agree with it or disagree.

As for ecrime, thanks for posting the section of the law, as far as I understand that, the US passed a law saying that comprimising their stuff is a crime under US law. I think I get that now.

But, just a hypothetical situation, if old mad as a badger Kim-Jong-Il decided that posting stuff making him look bad on his national website, was illegal under his law, would that not be similar as the servers n stuff are in his country etc.

Well, what you were actually doing was saying that the US was the same as China because China executed some retarded guy for drug trafficking and the US wants to put someone in jail for hacking into Dept. of Defense computers.

Should China be executing people under the situation you described? I'll say "no", sure. But so what? It's China. They don't care what the UK thinks of their drug enforcement policies. Was the purpose of that line to discuss China's policies or just to set up a "You're as bad as China!" line because you spent all of one sentence talking about it and the rest of the OP discussing how this hacker guy was a blushing innocent being mauled by the monster of the US justice system (which we have in common with China!)?


I don't even know what you're asking here. On N. Korea's national website? I suppose if I was to hack into N. Korea's government computers and put up goatpr0n, N. Korea would have a valid *****. They probably wouldn't get far with it because the US & N. Korea don't have an extradition treaty. N. Korea and the US also wouldn't cooperate in finding out who I am and bringing me in, which authorities in the UK almost certainly did in the case you presented. Which goes back to what I said before: this guy was stupid enough to not only break US law in a way certain to attract the federal government's attention but did it from a nation with strong ties to the US. If you want to hack US federal computers, do it from Venezuela or Russia or something.

Edited, Jan 2nd 2010 10:20am by Jophiel