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#127 Dec 23 2009 at 8:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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As I said before, you'd have a hard time defending the idea that hollywood doesn't like soldiers with all the soldier movies with soldier heroes and noble hard good soldiers.

More in a bit

Edited, Dec 23rd 2009 8:43pm by Xsarus
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#128 Dec 23 2009 at 8:36 PM Rating: Decent
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paulsol wrote:
I'm struggling to think of Corporations that do stuff for the beneefit of 'people' as opposed to the benefit of their quarterly bottom line.


Again with the "one must lose for the other to win" assumption.

Why does a corporation benefiting their bottom line automatically not benefit you? Where does that assumption come from?


Name 5 products you use every day and which benefit you in some way. How many were produced by a corporation attempting to improve its bottom line? Most likely all of them, right? Still "struggling" to understand this?

Quote:
I'm sure there are some examples. I just can't think of any.


You're looking for the wrong thing. You're starting with an assumption, which conveniently makes it harder for you to see the obvious truth in front of you: That when corporations improve their bottom lines, it's overwhelmingly beneficial to the people who use the products and services they create.


Again: Where do you suppose that assumption came from? Do you think it's an accident that you have so completely adopted a "rich get rich at the expense of everyone else" mentality? Or do you think maybe all those films you've seen since you were a child might just have had something to do with it?


Wake up! See the world for how it is. Heck. Just stop and look around you sometime. Look at what you have. Ask "how did those things get here". A stunningly high percentage of the time, the answer isn't "the government did it", but rather "a large corporation figured they could make money if they built a better <whatever>". Their actions help both you and them. It's not a zero sum game.

Governments act as zero sum operators. In order for the government to give you something, it has to take it from someone else. Corporations don't work that way. In order to make money, they have to come up with a way to get you to buy their product instead of someone else's. The vast majority of the time, that requires that they make something that is better, less expensive, or both. Thus, you are benefited at the same time. You see this all around you, but your own ingrained assumptions prevent you from seeing them.


Wake up!
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#129 Dec 23 2009 at 8:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
As I said before, you'd have a hard time defending the idea that holywood doesn't like soldiers with all the soldier movies with soldier heroes and noble hard good soldiers.


I've already addressed this.

Soldiers? Yes. The Military? Not so much...
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#130 Dec 23 2009 at 8:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I always marvel at the absurdity of someone arguing that corporations want to make people poor.

That is somewhat absurd. Which is probably why most people don't say that and instead note that [some/many] corporations are more concerned with turning a profit than in worrying about the welfare of other people. Which is a completely different argument.
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#131 Dec 23 2009 at 8:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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You're going black and white here though Gbaji. You're painting a picture where there are all these companies that are all noble and responsible and only benefit people, and a bunch of movies that unfairly portray them as bad. That doesn't reflect reality at all.

Companies can do a lot of good, but very large companies, almost by their nature will step on people all the time. They can't help it. This is what people distrust about companies.

You also seem to be saying that people have some sort of built in hatred of companies, which is also absurd. In my experience people hate a company for a very personal reason. Someone will tell you that dell blows because they had a bad experience, while another person will say it's a fantastic company. I think this nebulous hatred of corporations is something you have made up, by trying to defend companies that go too far. It's not real, it's just how you are perceiving the world.

It's also silly to say that Hollywood has some kind of agenda to make people hate corps. They are a very easy and convenient power to put an underdog up against, and Hollywood likes their formula. This is after all what the thread is about, that the movie is some kind of liberal conspiracy to make people hate companies.

Edited, Dec 23rd 2009 8:57pm by Xsarus
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#132 Dec 23 2009 at 8:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I've already addressed this.

Soldiers? Yes. The Military? Not so much...

I already addressed this. Large organizations don't make good protagonists, individuals do.
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#133 Dec 23 2009 at 8:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
paulsol wrote:
I'm struggling to think of Corporations that do stuff for the beneefit of 'people' as opposed to the benefit of their quarterly bottom line.


Again with the "one must lose for the other to win" assumption.

Why does a corporation benefiting their bottom line automatically not benefit you.........etc.


Wake up!


You struggling to think of any corporations who do stuff to benefit people other than their shareholders as well?

It is rather hard isn't it?
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#134 Dec 23 2009 at 9:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Um, this is a MOVIE, people! Sheesh...
#135 Dec 23 2009 at 9:24 PM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:
Um, this is a MOVIE, people! Sheesh...

But, but art reflects life! How can we keep these gargantuan political threads going without comparing to highly exaggerated and dramatized movies?

I mean, seriously, it's like some people here have an agenda or something.
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#136 Dec 23 2009 at 9:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ridiculous politics aside, Hollywood itself consists almost entirely of massive corporations last I checked.
#137 Dec 23 2009 at 9:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nadenu wrote:
Um, this is a MOVIE, people! Sheesh...


I thought it was too.....Until I was edumacated by those in the 'Know'.

Now I realise that it is, in reality, some pretty scary communist propaganda designed to brainwash me into believing that looking after our environment is actually a good thing (lol), when in fact the good thing would be for the corporations (who know best apparently) to mine/harvest/clearfell as they see fit so that they can make more 'stuff' so that I can go out and buy it. Wich also apparently is the secret to lifelong happiness for all! (especially the good folk at the corporation who need massive amounts of cash so that we ( us at the bottom of the pile) have someone to emulate and give us something to aim for in life). Smiley: schooled


Obvious really....when you 'Know'.

Edited, Dec 24th 2009 3:41am by paulsol
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#138 Dec 23 2009 at 9:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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#139 Dec 23 2009 at 10:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Again with the "one must lose for the other to win" assumption.

Why does a corporation benefiting their bottom line automatically not benefit you? Where does that assumption come from?


Name 5 products you use every day and which benefit you in some way. How many were produced by a corporation attempting to improve its bottom line? Most likely all of them, right? Still "struggling" to understand this?


But does this make a good movie? No.

Quote:
So. The more people who work for corporations and the more people who are customers of corporations, the more the corporations "care" about their well being, right? Just checking. Now. Follow the logic...


I always marvel at the absurdity of someone arguing that corporations want to make people poor. Um... Then who'll buy their products? Corporations have by far the strongest interest in ensuring there is a healthy middle class and a stable successful economy. These are good things. People in government might have a vested interest in making more people poor, but not people in business.


Their goal is not specifically to make them poor, but rather to extract the maximal amount of cash from them as possible. If that happens to make them "poor", it is of no consequence to them. However they don't want other corporations to make them "poor" because that reduces the amount of money that can be extracted. Basic Math.

Quote:
Sure. Want to compare how often the corruption portrayed happens to line up conveniently along lines which put Liberals in a positive light and Conservatives in a negative one versus the opposite? Heck. Find me an example in the last 40 years of a major motion picture in which some positive social program turns out to actually be some secret evil plot to control the population via economic manipulation (or some other more nefarious means). Contrast that to the number of "using military forces illegally", or "military project gone awry", or "using government power to funnel money to a company", or "corrupt government official helping out rich buddies".

It's hard to find films with the former. It's hard not to trip over films with the latter themes. And yes. The individual soldier is often portrayed well. But usually in the context of disobeying orders given to him in order to do what's right. The military as a whole is overwhelmingly treated negatively in film media.


V for Vendetta?
Equilibrium?

Just off the top of my head.






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#140 Dec 23 2009 at 10:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
But it's *always* the handful of greedy folks who are running things, isn't it? And there never seems to be an end to the volume of bad guys who want to wrest control of the big corporation so they can embark on their own nefarious purposes.

The point is that there is a common perception of corporations in film media that their natural state is to be "evil" with the occasional good person having to fight hard to prevent it.


Corporations are powerful organizations that can potentially have a fluid change of leadership in their power structure. That's frankly an ideal environment for someone who want's to gain power for whatever purpose, nefarious or benevolent.

"Villains" would be frankly retarded if they didn't look to it as a potential route to seizing power. You don't have to be nearly as popular among the "common man" to seize power via the private sector, rather than the public. It's a power structure that encourages rather than stifles "ends justify the means" decision making, and you don't get bogged down with as much of the hot violence and personal physical risk that is involved with organized crime. In addition, you don't need private financiers, as the general public will more or less happily financier whatever "special projects" you embark on.

And it makes for a good story.

No wonder it's a common theme.

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#141 Dec 24 2009 at 6:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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paulsol wrote:
I'm struggling to think of Corporations that do stuff for the beneefit of 'people' as opposed to the benefit of their quarterly bottom line.
Corporations will do things that benefit people when it aligns with benefiting their quarterly bottom line. People just need to know how to get on board.
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#142 Dec 24 2009 at 6:37 AM Rating: Good
1) I was told it was "Dances with Smurfs". Which rather makes me want to go and see it.

2) Gabji, it's not the first time I say this, but you should really go and see a doctor. This paranoia of yours is getting increasingly pervasive.

3) Wake up! Lol.. folks.
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#143 Dec 24 2009 at 7:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:
1) I was told it was "Dances with Smurfs". Which rather makes me want to go and see it.


Either you're purposely quoting South Park, or you're inadvertently quoting South Park. Either way, win.
#144 Dec 24 2009 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Wake up!
Not going to throw a "sheeple" in there?
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#145 Dec 24 2009 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is that what that was? I figured Gbaji knew we were drifting off by that point in his rant.

"Blah.. blah... corporations.. blah.. blah.. liberals.. blah.. blah.. indoctrination... blah.. HEY! WAKE UP!.. blah.. blah.. profits.. blah.. blah.. Left.. blah.. WAKE UP!!.."
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#146 Dec 24 2009 at 8:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Xarus,

Quote:
If you don't get caught there are no repercussions.


If the govn gets caught doing something they shouldn't (like forced healthcare) there are no repercussions. I can't sue the govn for the difference because my ins rates went up because of govn healthcare.

As US citizens we can't sue the govn because they've done something we don't like.


Ugly,

Quote:
Wait. So if I want Varus to shut up, all I have to do is smack him with a lead pipe and it's cool?


If you were the federal govn sure you could do that and there wouldn't be a thing I could do about it.


Funny I thought that the Supreme Court could take on cases that question the Constitutionally of Laws made by either State lawmakers, or Congress and Sign into law by the President of the USA.

SSeems that how such things are done in the USA, where Might doesn't always make on Right.

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#147 Dec 24 2009 at 10:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Haven't gotten to watch the movie yet, only previews, but from what I've seen there's probably a metaphor in the movie that you can draw if you want to.

That is, a tacit criticism of the nation of America and its allies going into Iraq, after the resource of oil. (Since by international legal standards, America hadn't proved and never proved later that Iraq broke the treaty from the "first" Gulf War in early 90s.)

The corporation is a metaphor for National government/s. If you like, it's a metaphor for national governments that are tied up in corporate interests.
#148 Dec 25 2009 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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Apparently, Avatar just got beat out at the box office by Alvin and the chipmunks: The Squeakuel.

I have a sneaking suspicion that varus drained his office's funds to make this happen.
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#149 Dec 25 2009 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
Apparently, Avatar just got beat out at the box office by Alvin and the chipmunks: The Squeakuel.

I have a sneaking suspicion that varus drained his office's funds to make this happen.


Everyone is a secret furry and just wants to watch the Chipettes.
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#150 Dec 25 2009 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
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Now that I've actually seen the movie, I'll just pop in fashionably late to call Varus a moron. Not only did he completely miss the point of seeing the movie (the visual effects), but he also managed to twist the little bit of plot and turn it into a left wing agenda indoctrination attempt, while simultaneously failing to notice that the film actually portrays many of the values that he professes to follow himself.
#151 Dec 27 2009 at 3:29 AM Rating: Good
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Turin wrote:
Now that I've actually seen the movie, I'll just pop in fashionably late to call Varus a moron. Not only did he completely miss the point of seeing the movie (the visual effects), but he also managed to twist the little bit of plot and turn it into a left wing agenda indoctrination attempt, while simultaneously failing to notice that the film actually portrays many of the values that he professes to follow himself.

I'd be curious to know which values. No...still haven't made it there myself.
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