GOP Health Care Filibuster Defeated :: Free Realms

Quote Reply

#177 Dec 22 2009 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent

Jophiel

View User Forum

Liberal Conspiracy

TILT

gbaji wrote:

You're sold on the idea that since it's labeled as "free", it must really be true...

Hello, strawman!

Who here has been calling it "free"?

So we've gone through the "NO!! The GOP did everything right!!" phase and now we're in the "You're all idiots!!" phase.

That's denial and anger down. Ironically enough, "bargaining" is up next! Smiley: laugh

Edited, Dec 22nd 2009 2:16pm by Jophiel

____________________________

Belkira wrote:

Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.

▲ Page top

#178 REDACTED, Posted: Dec 22 2009 at 2:12 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) bsphil,

Quote Reply

#179 Dec 22 2009 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1680481127345

View User Forum

Sage

21,262 posts

Quote:

You're sold on the idea that since it's labeled as "free", it must really be true...

Nowhere, not here, not anywhere, has ANYONE - liberal or otherwise - on this forum seriously said we wanted "free health care."

I just want a guarantee that the $250/month my husband is forking over will actually mean that if I'm in a traumatic car accident, my insurance will cover the bill. Is that too much to ask?

Quote:

They really believe if a company is successful it must be bad for the populace. I on the other hand tend to think that the better a business is doing the more people they can hire and the more product/service they can sell.

The 1919 Boston Molasses Flood says otherwise. Business, when left unregulated, will find more and more creative ways to make profit, at the expense of safety (or without regard to the quality of the product they are producing.)

Edited, Dec 22nd 2009 3:20pm by catwho

▲ Page top

#180 REDACTED, Posted: Dec 22 2009 at 2:22 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Joph,

#181 REDACTED, Posted: Dec 22 2009 at 2:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Cat,

Quote Reply

#182 Dec 22 2009 at 2:28 PM Rating: Excellent

Samira

View User Forum

Will swallow your soul

29,360 posts

publiusvarus wrote:

Cat,

Are you really citing something that happened in Boston nearly 100yrs ago as a reason why businesses are evil and out to get the little man? Really?

Believe she cited it as a reason why businesses need oversight. There are thousands of examples from which to choose.

____________________________

In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#183 Dec 22 2009 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent

Jophiel

View User Forum

Liberal Conspiracy

TILT

So their master strategy was to allow the Democrats to pass a massive once-in-a-generation reform bill with no legislative gains for the GOP... to get a couple extra Congresscritter seats in 2010?

Well, someone's not looking at the long game here. Must be those silly Democrats!

____________________________

Belkira wrote:

Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#184 Dec 22 2009 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1680481127345

View User Forum

Sage

21,262 posts

I cited it because it was the first case in which a business lost a lawsuit for gross negligence, thus ushering in the first business regulations in the US. Businesses, when left unchecked, will gladly cut any corner they can in the name of profit, until it blows up in their face (in this case literally.)

So yes, I look at ANY business posting record profits as suspicious.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#185 Dec 22 2009 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good

Debalic

Prodigal Son

20,643 posts

publiusvarus wrote:

Want to know how insurance companies maximize their profits...they insure more people. All the liberals plan does destroy the competition among insurance companies which will raise rates, not to mention taxes.

You liberals really have to sell yourself on the lie that the GOP didn't want cooperate don't you? The reality is the GOP didn't want to cooperate with this bill because it's a horrible bill that does nothing to help the health insurance industry.

And when the market tanks, which it will do within 6 months (mark my words), you won't be able to blame W or the GOP. The people will rightfully blame it on the tax increases Obamacare is going to bring beginning next year.

Marked.

So, by June 2010, nobody in the United States will have health insurance.

____________________________

publiusvarus wrote:

we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#186 Dec 22 2009 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good

bsphil

Edited by bsphil

21,739 posts

publiusvarus wrote:

bsphil,

Quote:

Those poor insurance companies. When will THEY get a break?!

This encapsulates what's wrong with the liberal thought process. They really believe if a company is successful it must be bad for the populace. I on the other hand tend to think that the better a business is doing the more people they can hire and the more product/service they can sell.

Says the insurance shiller.

publiusvarus wrote:

Cat,

Are you really citing something that happened in Boston nearly 100yrs ago as a reason why businesses are evil and out to get the little man? Really?

Businesses aren't out to get the little man. They're out to get every man, because that's how you improve the bottom line. A lack of regulation means that businesses can do whatever they see fit to improve their profits, regardless of how it affects their end product.

____________________________

His Excellency Aethien wrote:

Almalieque wrote:

If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.

Take the hint guys, please take the hint.

gbaji wrote:

I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#187 Dec 22 2009 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good

__DEL__1591797278547

Sage

3,829 posts

publiusvarus wrote:

Cat,

Are you really citing something that happened in Boston nearly 100yrs ago as a reason why businesses are evil and out to get the little man? Really?

Oh, we can go back much further. Would you like to see some stories about the textile, mining, and railroad construction industries back in the 19th century? Or perhaps the auto industry prior to unionization?

There's a reason the government started regulating businesses, and that reason is that history--and the loss of many, MANY lives--has taught us that when left unregulated, businesses will happily and eagerly throw employee and public safety under the bus for a few extra dollars of profit.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2009 12:59pm by Ambrya

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#188 Dec 22 2009 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good

__DEL__1649636418093

View User Forum

Sage

30,646 posts

publiusvarus wrote:

This encapsulates what's wrong with the liberal thought process. They really believe if a company is successful it must be bad for the populace. I on the other hand tend to think that the better a business is doing the more people they can hire and the more product/service they can sell.

You're problem is you're so pissed at the "wealthy" that you don't care what rights are violated as long as you think your liberal politicians can put them in their place. And of course this is all in the name of the "little guy". It's sad really.

What's sad is that you're so deluded you think that this is true.

Disney is a huge corporation. They make millions every year, and I have no problem with them. Microsoft is another example. There are tons of businesses that are doing well and that make a lot of money that no one has a problem with.

It's businesses that make money on people being ill or dying that is the problem. Do you get it yet? Even a little...?

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#189 Dec 22 2009 at 3:25 PM Rating: Excellent

Xsarus

View User Forum

10,601 posts

Be careful with that point. There is nothing wrong with doctors making a profit off being doctors. There is no problem with hospitals making profits, and in fact our system is better off when these institutions are profitable, as they can then do research etc.

There are problems with the exploitative middle man system that the states has right now.

____________________________

01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#190 Dec 22 2009 at 3:29 PM Rating: Decent

bsphil

Edited by bsphil

21,739 posts

Belkira the Tulip wrote:

publiusvarus wrote:

They really believe if a company is successful it must be bad for the populace.

Disney is a huge corporation. They make millions every year, and I have no problem with them.

Well, I do have a problem with Disney, but that's not really relevant to what you're talking about. There are plenty of profitable businesses I take zero issue with. It's the businesses that are "bad for the populous" that I have a problem with. Which by the way, is irrelevant to how much profit they make.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2009 3:35pm by bsphil

____________________________

His Excellency Aethien wrote:

Almalieque wrote:

If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.

Take the hint guys, please take the hint.

gbaji wrote:

I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#191 Dec 22 2009 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent

Timelordwho

View User Forum

Unplanned

13,240 posts

Ambrya wrote:

publiusvarus wrote:

Cat,

Are you really citing something that happened in Boston nearly 100yrs ago as a reason why businesses are evil and out to get the little man? Really?

Oh, we can go back much further. Would you like to see some stories about the textile, mining, and railroad construction industries back in the 19th century? Or perhaps the auto industry prior to unionization?

There's a reason the government started regulating businesses, and that reason is that history--and the loss of many, MANY lives--has taught us that when left unregulated, businesses will happily and eagerly throw employee and public safety under the bus for a few extra dollars of profit.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2009 12:59pm by Ambrya

Why go back even that far when you have the Pinto circa 1970.

____________________________

Just as Planned.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#192 Dec 22 2009 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good

__DEL__1716164190383

View User Forum

Sage

19,999 posts

Belkira the Tulip wrote:

It's businesses that make money on people being ill or dying that is the problem.

This is... almost to the point of not being right.

Any sort of business where it's considered good policy to encourage your customers to buy your product and not use it at all, though... yeah, there's something seriously wrong with that kind of business model.

EDIT: You know, I just realized that I also described the Franklin Mint with that statement. I stand by it anyway.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2009 1:38pm by MDenham

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#193 Dec 22 2009 at 3:41 PM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1649636418093

View User Forum

Sage

30,646 posts

Sir Xsarus wrote:

Be careful with that point. There is nothing wrong with doctors making a profit off being doctors. There is no problem with hospitals making profits, and in fact our system is better off when these institutions are profitable, as they can then do research etc.

There are problems with the exploitative middle man system that the states has right now.

Yes, thank you. That's what I meant. I'm just busy at work and didn't have time to articulate it well enough. Thank you!

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#194 Dec 22 2009 at 3:43 PM Rating: Excellent

Jophiel

View User Forum

Liberal Conspiracy

TILT

If anyone is curious, here is a PDF detailing the "immediate benefits" (i.e. within six months of passing) of the Senate bill.

____________________________

Belkira wrote:

Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#195 Dec 22 2009 at 3:48 PM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1680481127345

View User Forum

Sage

21,262 posts

Quote:

The reality is the GOP didn't want to cooperate with this bill because it's a horrible bill that does nothing to help the health insurance industry.

I don't know about the horribleness of the bill, but he's right, the GOP didn't want it since it doesn't do anything to help the health insurance industry.

(Not that they need any help.)

The only thing that could have satisfied the GOP was a bill that required every man, woman, and child to start paying premiums, with interest, on the day they were born, to Mommy Cigna and Daddy Blue Cross, so that by the time a child turned 18, they already owed the health insurance industry $100,000 debt that they'd have to pay off BEFORE they could even start to actually get their own medical benefits!

THAT would have helped the health insurance industry like nothing else!

▲ Page top

#196 REDACTED, Posted: Dec 22 2009 at 3:52 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Tulip,

#197 REDACTED, Posted: Dec 22 2009 at 3:54 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Xarus,

Quote Reply

#198 Dec 22 2009 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good

Guenny

Sage

4,042 posts

Belkira the Tulip wrote:

Disney is a huge corporation. They make millions every year, and I have no problem with them. Microsoft is another example. There are tons of businesses that are doing well and that make a lot of money that no one has a problem with.

Wait, Disney and Microsoft are the two corporations you cite as not having a problem with? You do realize they make up the axis of evil in corporate America, don't you? I mean, I understand they aren't refusing to pay for grandma's Zocor, but they aren't exactly the picture of corporate idealism, either.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#199 Dec 22 2009 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good

bsphil

Edited by bsphil

21,739 posts

publiusvarus wrote:

Quote:

It's businesses that make money on people being ill or dying that is the problem. Do you get it yet? Even a little...?

I get that health insurers would be out of business and the health insurance industry would look like medicare if private businesses didn't make any money in the industry. No one works for free, not even waste of space govn social workers.

People that work for a non-profit organization still make money you fucking dolt.

publiusvarus wrote:

Xarus,

Quote:

Be careful with that point. There is nothing wrong with doctors making a profit off being doctors. There is no problem with hospitals making profits, and in fact our system is better off when these institutions are profitable, as they can then do research etc.

And this is all going to end under Obamacare.

Hold on a second, are you actually claiming that doctors will no longer be paid money to be doctors? Is that what you honestly believe? I'd really like to see you say this for yourself, because even for you that's a pretty stupid comment.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2009 4:12pm by bsphil

____________________________

His Excellency Aethien wrote:

Almalieque wrote:

If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.

Take the hint guys, please take the hint.

gbaji wrote:

I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#200 Dec 22 2009 at 4:08 PM Rating: Excellent

Samira

View User Forum

Will swallow your soul

29,360 posts

publiusvarus wrote:

Tulip,

You're cute when you're naive. Bill Clinton went after Microsoft like there was no tomorrow. Democrats did everything they could to destroy Microsoft because they thought it was getting to big; enter cries against monopolies. Any time a business is successful Democrats will do whatever they can to tax the h*ll out of them, unless of course they are generous donors to the DNC.

Guess again.

____________________________

In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#201 Dec 22 2009 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good

__DEL__1716164190383

View User Forum

Sage

19,999 posts

bsphil wrote:

publiusvarus wrote:

Xarus,

Quote:

Be careful with that point. There is nothing wrong with doctors making a profit off being doctors. There is no problem with hospitals making profits, and in fact our system is better off when these institutions are profitable, as they can then do research etc.

And this is all going to end under Obamacare.

Hold on a second, are you actually claiming that doctors will no longer be paid money to be doctors? Is that what you honestly believe? I'd really like to see you say this for yourself, because even for you that's a pretty stupid comment.

It's his usual "wishful thinking", proving once again he's a terrorist.

▲ Page top

GOP Health Care Filibuster DefeatedFollow