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GOP Health Care Filibuster DefeatedFollow

#227 Dec 22 2009 at 10:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
If I say I'm for a law making alcohol use illegal, but until it becomes a law drink beer every night, then yeah, I'm a hypocrite.

Remember all those strong pushes to eliminate earmarks back when the GOP ran Congress?

Remember them?


All those many attempts?


Huh? Because this was their chance to change the rules instead of those dasterdly Democrats taking all the earmarks while the Republicans had no choice but to grab earmarks too?


Do you?



Me neither.
The dems totally didn't let them. They're so OP.
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#228 Dec 22 2009 at 10:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
The dems totally didn't let them. They're so OP.

That's true. The Democrats always kick the Republicans ***.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#229 Dec 22 2009 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
The dems totally didn't let them. They're so OP.

That's true. The Democrats always kick the Republicans ***.


I think the new health care bill has an earmark for rape whistles for the republican congress critters. It's the one concession the RNC was able to get added to the bill.
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#230 Dec 22 2009 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
Timelordwho wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Sir Xsarus wrote:
The dems totally didn't let them. They're so OP.

That's true. The Democrats always kick the Republicans ***.


I think the new health care bill has an earmark for rape whistles for the republican congress critters. It's the one concession the RNC was able to get added to the bill.
Funny, wasn't one of Obama's promises not to leave marks?
#231 Dec 22 2009 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
Varus wrote:

In terms even you should be able to understand do you think someone who's never had, let's say, auto insurance, been cited for numerous speeding violations, been at fault in numerous accients should pay the same rate as a person who's always kept insurance, never been involved in any accidents or received any tickets?


In a word, no. And it terms you can understand, because you so obviously care a lot more about insurance companies than people, when it comes to insurance premiums essentially the "sicker you are" the more you're going to pay for insurance regardless of whether or not this bill is passed.

The difference being, when the bill passes, is that insurance companies cannot raise premiums once you "get sick". Hence why insurance companies, like credit card companies, are jacking rates now before the regulations kick in.

Quote:

if the people supported a public option Obama's disapproval numbers wouldn't be 56%.


They're not. RCP Average is 49.7 Approve, 44.6 Disapprove.

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If the people supported a public option they wouldn't have had to pass this in the middle of the night.


They will pass it at 8am Thursday. They had the procedural vote in the middle of the night because Republicans were being babies & wasting all the time they legally could between votes. They've stopped now, actually, & allowed the vote to pass the bill up to 8am Thursday so they can be home for Christmas.

That's right Varus, your coveted Pubbie Senators are actually giving up on the whole "gnashing of teeth" strategy for no other reason than so they can be home for Christmas. That's sure is some selflessness right there!
Quote:

If the people supported a public option Nelson wouldn't have had to been bribe.


They do. They don't like the idea of the government running it so much though. It was removed, however, so Nelson would get on board. The "bribes" also helped with this.




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#232 Dec 22 2009 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
Omegavegeta wrote:
Varus wrote:

In terms even you should be able to understand do you think someone who's never had, let's say, auto insurance, been cited for numerous speeding violations, been at fault in numerous accients should pay the same rate as a person who's always kept insurance, never been involved in any accidents or received any tickets?


In a word, no. And it terms you can understand, because you so obviously care a lot more about insurance companies than people, when it comes to insurance premiums essentially the "sicker you are" the more you're going to pay for insurance regardless of whether or not this bill is passed.

The difference being, when the bill passes, is that insurance companies cannot raise premiums once you "get sick". Hence why insurance companies, like credit card companies, are jacking rates now before the regulations kick in.
This was, as usual, a bad comparison on Varus's part.

The correct comparison: for car insurance, should they be able to raise your rates immediately when you have an accident, or should they have to wait until (say) the next time you go shopping for car insurance?
#233 Dec 22 2009 at 11:26 PM Rating: Good
Catwho wrote:
Nowhere, not here, not anywhere, has ANYONE - liberal or otherwise - on this forum seriously said we wanted "free health care."


I want free health care.
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#234 Dec 23 2009 at 12:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
But there is no legitimate reason to exclude a state from paying for a program like this Joph. None.

Bloomberg wrote:
Nelson took the floor to denounce attacks on the deal he struck, telling Republicans “you can twist and you can turn and you can try to distort what happens, but it doesn’t change the underlying fact.”

He said he had sought a provision that would have allowed any state to opt out of the plan to broaden Medicaid eligibility. To reach a deal with Senate Democratic leaders, Nelson said he accepted making his own state exempt from paying its share of the cost of the proposal.

Under the bill’s provisions, the federal government would pay for the entire Medicaid extension from 2014 to 2017. Thereafter, states would pay as much as 10 percent of the additional cost of the greater eligibility.

“It’s not a special deal for Nebraska, it is an opportunity to get rid of an under-funded mandate to all the states,” Nelson said. “We’ve drawn a line in the sand and said this is unacceptable” for all states, Nelson said.

OMG NO REASON UNLESS HE THOUGHT THE WHOLE BILL SUCKED AND NEEDS BRIBES!!!!!!!!

Smiley: rolleyes

gbaji wrote:
Sad.

Heh... got that right. You are indeed sad.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#235 Dec 23 2009 at 12:11 AM Rating: Good
Omegavegeta wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Nowhere, not here, not anywhere, has ANYONE - liberal or otherwise - on this forum seriously said we wanted "free health care."


I want free health care.
And I want a pony, but that's not happening either.
#236 Dec 23 2009 at 12:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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MDenham wrote:
Omegavegeta wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Nowhere, not here, not anywhere, has ANYONE - liberal or otherwise - on this forum seriously said we wanted "free health care."
I want free health care.
And I want a pony, but that's not happening either.
Screenshot
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#237 Dec 23 2009 at 12:20 AM Rating: Good
Coincidentally, I happen to have a pony.

Screenshot


- Will consider interesting trades.
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#238 Dec 23 2009 at 12:33 AM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Nowhere, not here, not anywhere, has ANYONE - liberal or otherwise - on this forum seriously said we wanted "free health care."


I want free health care.
#239 Dec 23 2009 at 6:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
But there is no legitimate reason to exclude a state from paying for a program like this Joph. None.

Bloomberg wrote:
Nelson took the floor to denounce attacks on the deal he struck, telling Republicans “you can twist and you can turn and you can try to distort what happens, but it doesn’t change the underlying fact.”

He said he had sought a provision that would have allowed any state to opt out of the plan to broaden Medicaid eligibility. To reach a deal with Senate Democratic leaders, Nelson said he accepted making his own state exempt from paying its share of the cost of the proposal.

Under the bill’s provisions, the federal government would pay for the entire Medicaid extension from 2014 to 2017. Thereafter, states would pay as much as 10 percent of the additional cost of the greater eligibility.

“It’s not a special deal for Nebraska, it is an opportunity to get rid of an under-funded mandate to all the states,” Nelson said. “We’ve drawn a line in the sand and said this is unacceptable” for all states, Nelson said.


Wow. Did you think he'd say "Yeah. I took a bribe..."?

If his objective was to allow any state to opt out of the expanded medicaid coverage, but couldn't get all states, why not opt his own state out entirely? That's not what he did. What he got was a provision in which citizens in his state qualify for the same medicaid benefits as everyone else, but they don't have to pay for it. Everyone else does.

It's a "special deal". No matter how much he tries to twist and turn and distort the facts.
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#240 Dec 23 2009 at 6:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Wow. Did you think he'd say "Yeah. I took a bribe..."?

Gosh, no!

Of course, I also didn't think any response from him would result in anything other than you saying "No, it was a bribe! I BRIBE, I say!"

After all... that's all you guys have left now.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#241 Dec 24 2009 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Final vote held this morning and passed 60-39. Senator Inhofe (R-Oil & Gas) has been pouting in the corner and refusing to vote on any of the motions for the past week.

Edit: My mistake. Although Inhofe has neglected to vote in the three filibuster motions this week, it was Jim Bunning (R-KY) who missed today's vote.

The 60-39 vote was interesting because it was thought that some more centrist Democrats might hedge their votes by voting against the filibuster (vote to proceed) but then vote against the bill itself. Thus covering themselves by saying "I thought the bill deserved an up-or-down vote even if I opposed it". No such animal though; they remained united in passing it.

Edited, Dec 24th 2009 3:14pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
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#242 Dec 25 2009 at 10:24 AM Rating: Default
Normally I would just watch one of these threads from the sidelines and laugh, but I would like to point out one thing.

With this bill we have the potential, now not saying it WILL happen just that it COULD, to be forced into paying for health insurance. Granted each trip to the doctor would be free, but we COULD have to pay for insurance.

And anyone who brings up having to pay for other kinds of insurance is a ******* ******. We pay for car insurance so that someone will pay for the damages to other people's cars.
#243 Dec 25 2009 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
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lightningcount wrote:
And anyone who brings up having to pay for other kinds of insurance is a @#%^ing ******. We pay for car insurance so that someone will pay for the damages to other people's cars.


Well, now if some people get sick, the tax payer ends up paying for the emergency bill rather than that person's non-existent insurance company.
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#244 Dec 25 2009 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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lightningcount wrote:
With this bill we have the potential, now not saying it WILL happen just that it COULD, to be forced into paying for health insurance. Granted each trip to the doctor would be free, but we COULD have to pay for insurance.

...and?

I'm forced to pay into a whole lot of things. Frankly, health care ranks in the upper brackets of things I'd want to be forced to pay for.
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#245 Dec 25 2009 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
Some people do not have the money to pay for what they already have. I currently have enough to pay for my living expenses with an extra 100ish dollars a month for fun things. (living expenses includes food and gas btw) If health insurance is more than that 100 dollars than what will I do? I can not take a bus anywhere, they do not run where I live.

I have a preexisting back condition. What if they send me through the medical exams and see the back condition, and decide my monthly fee is 500 dollars a month? (Btw that is what it normally costs for an individual to get health insurance, not through work.) Will they still have the 200 dollars at the beginning of the year that you have to pay for out of your own money? Don't just look at the "free healthcare" sign and say yippee. Nothing in this country is free.

Edited, Dec 25th 2009 5:15pm by lightningcount
#246 Dec 25 2009 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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lightningcount wrote:
Some people do not have the money to pay for what they already have. I currently have enough to pay for my living expenses with an extra 100ish dollars a month for fun things. (living expenses includes food and gas btw) If health insurance is more than that 100 dollars than what will I do? I can not take a bus anywhere, they do not run where I live.

I have a preexisting back condition. What if they send me through the medical exams and see the back condition, and decide my monthly fee is 500 dollars a month? (Btw that is what it normally costs for an individual to get health insurance, not through work.) Will they still have the 200 dollars at the beginning of the year that you have to pay for out of your own money? Don't just look at the "free healthcare" sign and say yippee. Nothing in this country is free.


So you'd rather just sit back without any insurance, get hospitalized for 5 days and get charged 30,000USD for the hospital stay and another 7-10,000 for the specialist to fix you, not be able to pay it, and make the hospital eat the loss by using tax money or private donations?
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#247 Dec 25 2009 at 5:29 PM Rating: Decent
Key words in that sentence, hospital eating the loss... No... if I injured my back to the point of it needing surgery, then a very well known company that has probably delivered a package to you before will pay it. Mine is an on the job injury, and every doctors visit I make is paid for by said companies workmans comp.

Just because I do not work for said company anymore, does not mean they are not liable for the on the job injury. And no this does not make me a leech. The injury I sustained made me unable to work at that company anymore.

Now the point I am trying to make is, if this bill passes, who pays for my back problems? Is it still that company? Or is it the american taxpayers? My back is going to be fixed one way or another... who do you want fixing it?

If you want to know the backstory, I was told to pick up several over 100 pound packages and load then into the trailer. I asked for help but was told that we were too busy on our PD. (Package dock) So I did it myself. On the 4th or 5th one it felt like someone reached into my body and started playing tug of war with my tendons and muscles running down my left leg.

Now is it fair for me to be out on the street because I could not get help lifting packages? No. I work at a different company today making less money and having to miss days for doctors visits. I am not a leech. I was thrown into an unfair situation . While I know life is not fair, some things are just too wrong to let go.




Edited, Dec 25th 2009 6:37pm by lightningcount
#248 Dec 25 2009 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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Ignore the back injury, and think of another injury where you can't blame anyone and get free money.

A coworker of mine just went through an emergency intestinal surgery and a one week hospital stay (it's where I got those money figures from). No fault of the company he works for or any company around him, so there was no Workmans Comp to cover the expenses. Luckily we have insurance through the company we work for, so he had to pay almost nothing. But this problem could happen to anyone, a hardening of tissue around the intestines causing them to be constricted.

Not everything can be blamed on someone else to try and get free money. There are plenty of problems and issues that can occur which will leave you stuck with the costs (or in these cases, the Emergency Room).

My point is, you deny the comparison to other insurances like Auto because the auto insurance covers potential damage you do to others. Well, the health insurance covers potential costs you will be putting on the tax payers through emergency room use.

Edited, Dec 25th 2009 6:44pm by TirithRR
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#249 Dec 25 2009 at 5:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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lightningcount wrote:
Some people do not have the money to pay for what they already have.

Which is why the bill includes sizable subsidies for people who legitimately can't afford to purchase insurance.

Edited, Dec 25th 2009 5:54pm by Jophiel
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#250 Dec 26 2009 at 11:48 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
Which is why the bill includes sizable subsidies for people who legitimately can't afford to purchase insurance.



Quote:
So you'd rather just sit back without any insurance, get hospitalized for 5 days and get charged 30,000USD for the hospital stay and another 7-10,000 for the specialist to fix you, not be able to pay it, and make the hospital eat the loss by using tax money or private donations?


Now here is the fun part. Lets do some fun math. How often do you think a person with no health insurance visits the doctor? The answer, only when he absolutely thinks it is necessary, or in case of some sort of accident/injury.

Lets take those same bottom bracket people... and lets give them free health insurance since it is paid for by taxes. How often are they going to go to the doctor then? The answer... every time they have a stuffy nose or need an excuse to not go to work. Welcome to the real world people. The bottom bracket suddenly going to the doctor every 4-5 months is going to create a tax deficit that will send all of america into debt.

Lets make a prediction here. 10 years from now, we are 100% a social healthcare society. Doctors who ACTUALLy give a damn are a rare breed. The minimum is now the standard for healthcare and hospitals are now government run offices. Going to the doctor for an illness is now non existant because the waiting list is so long you get better before you even see a doctor, or you die.

Pregnant mothers die in childbirth because doctors do not want to do a C-section because it costs more.

This is the worst case scenarios people... And if things keep going the way they are, it could be a reality. You know what the worst part of it is? The changes will be so subtle, so minute that by the time it even gets to this point, no one will care.

Btw, this bill would never have passed if Ted Kennedy did not die. That is a fact.
#251 Dec 27 2009 at 12:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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lightningcount wrote:
Lets take those same bottom bracket people... and lets give them free health insurance since it is paid for by taxes. How often are they going to go to the doctor then? The answer... every time they have a stuffy nose or need an excuse to not go to work.

Says who? I pay for my health insurance. I actually have more incentive to go to the doctor for every sniffle because then I can feel as though I'm getting my money's worth out of those monthly premiums. And yet I don't go to the doctor for every stuffy nose or every time I want a doctor's note. Why should I assume someone getting a subsidy on their insurance is going to be much more inclined to visit the doctor than I am? Keep in mind that this is insurance -- they're still going to need to drop their $30 co-pay or whatever to get that stuffy nose looked at.
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Belkira wrote:
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