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GOP Health Care Filibuster DefeatedFollow

#1 Dec 21 2009 at 12:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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In a 1am vote, the GOP filibuster against the health care bill was defeated, clearing the way for a straight up or down later this week and a conference bill (to reconcile the House & Senate versions) after the recess.

In a "truer words never spoken" moment, I came across this column a little bit ago as I was browsing around. Money quote:
TNR wrote:
At the outset of this debate, moderate Democrats were desperate for a bipartisan bill. They were willing to do almost anything to get it, including negotiate fruitlessly for months on end. We can't know for sure, but Democrats appeared willing to make enormous substantive concessions to win the assent of even a few Republicans.
[...]
The Republicans eschewed a halfway compromise and put all their chips on an all or nothing campaign to defeat health care and Obama's presidency. It was an audacious gamble. They lost. In the end, they'll walk away with nothing. The Republicans may gain some more seats in 2010 by their total obstruction, but the substantive policy defeat they've been dealt will last for decades.

The Democrats will, without question, lose seats in 2010. If this issue causes them to lose even more... well, I'm glad that this was the hill they chose to die on.

Edited, Dec 21st 2009 12:58am by Jophiel
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#2 Dec 21 2009 at 1:26 AM Rating: Decent
Incoming huge debate in

3...

2...

1...

*ducks and covers*
#3 Dec 21 2009 at 4:01 AM Rating: Excellent
Assuming this bill passes, and assuming in a year or two a majority appreciate the changes, I wouldn't want to be running as a Republican.

-DK
#4 Dec 21 2009 at 6:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hey, welcome to the rest of the civilized world America!
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#5 Dec 21 2009 at 7:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Don't welcome us yet. From what I've been reading it's not much of a bill. It's a definite improvement, but it's far from ideal.

Edited, Dec 21st 2009 8:54am by Turin
#6 Dec 21 2009 at 7:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Turin wrote:
Don't welcome us yet. From what I've been reading it's not much of a bill. It's a definite improvement, but it's far from ideal.

Edited, Dec 21st 2009 8:54am by Turin


This. It looks like this bill sucks. No public option, restrictions on abortions, forces insurance companies to take people with pre-existing conditions but allows the insurance companies to charge whatever premium they want.

But it's a step in the right direction, and it will make things better than they are now; just not as good as they SHOULD have been.
#7 Dec 21 2009 at 8:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
But it's a step in the right direction
This is a big deal. While it may not be what it should be, gbaji's greatest fear is enacted now. Because the bill has been passed, additions can be made. It's harder to get a social program into existence, then it is to modify it. Also, once alive, social programs are almost impossible to kill, so it's not going anywhere.
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#8 Dec 21 2009 at 8:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Even the token liberal Republican, Olympia, wouldn't break ranks on this one (bitch). I think, symbolically, it was important for the Dems to push this through.
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#9 Dec 21 2009 at 8:33 AM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
This. It looks like this bill sucks. No public option, restrictions on abortions, forces insurance companies to take people with pre-existing conditions but allows the insurance companies to charge whatever premium they want.

No public option but allows people to receive government subsidies and enter into the federally overseen insurance exchange program (which is to include a non-profit, privately run plan). So that's better than what we've got now. Sec 2701 prohibits discriminatory pricing per individual or family. You have to be paying the same for your policy as everyone else is paying for that policy, less exclusion for things such as smoking and age. Again, this doesn't stop the insurance companies from having high cost policies which will be the only ones you qualify for but it does stop them from jacking up your rates once you get sick. As you said, it prohibits blocking people with pre-existing conditions (or dropping people once they get sick).

Far from "perfect" but it was the best you were going to get. We'll have to see how the abortion coverage thing shakes out. The current Senate solution seems pretty cumbersome.
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#10 Dec 21 2009 at 8:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
While it may not be what it should be, gbaji's greatest fear is enacted now. Because the bill has been passed, additions can be made. It's harder to get a social program into existence, then it is to modify it.

One day someone will say "You know, that non-profit, privately run option that's overseen by the government... what if we just had the government run that one"? Smiley: wink2

Oh, and some dude on the AM stations this morning (don't know his name, he was filling in for someone on vacation) couldn't have misread my linked column any worse. He and his Fox News talking head on the phone were saying "Well, it sounds like he's saying the Republicans should have just delayed this bill forever by pretending to go along with it until it finally died. And that's just not how we do government!" What the columnist was actually saying was that the GOP could have gained a number on concessions on things they wanted but lost the chance. "Hey, we can't do this public option but we could agree to a private exchange... but we need major tort reform, insurance sales over state lines, etc etc". They probably could have cut the bill we have down considerably further. Instead, the public option collapsed under its own weight (toldja so, toldja so), Obama got something close to his original goal (although those who had their heart set on a public option won't see it that way) and the Republicans got... nothing.

Edited, Dec 21st 2009 8:47am by Jophiel
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#11 Dec 21 2009 at 8:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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IDrownFish wrote:
Incoming huge debate in

3...

2...

1...

*ducks and covers*


So should we start calling ourselves the United States Socialist Republic now, or wait 4 years when the "benifits" of this plan theoretically start? Seems the tax increases start almost immidiatly. That's fun.
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#12 Dec 21 2009 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
So should we start calling ourselves the United States Socialist Republic now
You're Canadian now eh?
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#13 Dec 21 2009 at 9:01 AM Rating: Decent
Darkknight wrote:
Assuming this bill passes, and assuming in a year or two a majority appreciate the changes, I wouldn't want to be running as a Republican.-DK


Word from the wise is that most of the provisions of the bill will take 3-5 years to implement. Which means there's plenty of time for people to get discouraged and a complete turnover of congress to occur before the benefits even start to be realized. That time frame isn't set in stone, however, and it's possible things could be sped up if the right people cooperate (haha).

Also, let's not get premature - the bill hasn't actually passed yet. It still has to be voted on and reconciled and voted on again.

Edited, Dec 21st 2009 9:08am by BrownDuck
#14 Dec 21 2009 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:

Seems the tax increases start almost immidiatly. That's fun.
Only if you're making half-a-mil/year or more.

Honestly, this bill is only the teeniest of baby steps pointing in the direction of socialized medicine.
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#15 Dec 21 2009 at 9:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:


So should we start calling ourselves the United States Socialist Republic now, or wait 4 years when the "benifits" of this plan theoretically start? Seems the tax increases start almost immidiatly. That's fun.


No more so than when Social Security was first implemented. Or the interstate highway system. Or, you know, public education.

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#16 Dec 21 2009 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Immediate benefits include expansion of preventative care, expansion of care for your children, prohibiting lifetime or annual benefit limits, prohibiting plan discrimination based on salary, prohibitions against insurers dumping policies and immediate establishment of a high-risk pool for people who were previously unable to obtain coverage.

Other parts will take several years to get up and running.
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#17 Dec 21 2009 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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You used expansion twice and early in that paragraph just to drive it home for gbaji, didn't you?
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#18 Dec 21 2009 at 9:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Also, let's not get premature - the bill hasn't actually passed yet. It still has to be voted on and reconciled and voted on again.

Yeah, but the very strong odds are on it passing. "It" being something very close to the Senate bill. This morning's vote was a proxy for the bill itself -- few people will 'save' themselves by saying "I voted to let the bill proceed but then voted against it." Likewise, there's two more opportunities for the GOP to filibuster this week but those are procedural matters and, again, once you've cast your lot to end the first filibuster you don't win points with anyone by supporting the second.

Conventional wisdom on the reconciliation is a few token changes so the House can feel like it did something and then the bill passing.
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#19 Dec 21 2009 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
You used expansion twice and early in that paragraph just to drive it home for gbaji, didn't you?

Also "prohibition" so he'll know we're steelin hiz leb3rteez!!
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#20 Dec 21 2009 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:


So should we start calling ourselves the United States Socialist Republic now, or wait 4 years when the "benifits" of this plan theoretically start? Seems the tax increases start almost immidiatly. That's fun.


No more so than when Social Security was first implemented. Or the interstate highway system. Or, you know, public education.



The public education system that fails to teach the spelling of benefits and immediately.

:(
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#21 Dec 21 2009 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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Also, burnt a lot of political capital on this move, but it's a good investment.

If they can work the spin cycle to show how much the system has been improved, they can dampen the net cost by 2010. I'm thinking Op-ed's akimbo.
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#22 Dec 21 2009 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Samira wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:


So should we start calling ourselves the United States Socialist Republic now, or wait 4 years when the "benifits" of this plan theoretically start? Seems the tax increases start almost immidiatly. That's fun.


No more so than when Social Security was first implemented. Or the interstate highway system. Or, you know, public education.



The public education system that fails to teach the spelling of benefits and immediately.

:(
The same one that fails to teach basic life skills like using the spell check provided by the forum you moderate.
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#23 Dec 21 2009 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Samira wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:


So should we start calling ourselves the United States Socialist Republic now, or wait 4 years when the "benifits" of this plan theoretically start? Seems the tax increases start almost immidiatly. That's fun.


No more so than when Social Security was first implemented. Or the interstate highway system. Or, you know, public education.



The public education system that fails to teach the spelling of benefits and immediately.

:(
The same one that fails to teach basic life skills like using the spell check provided by the forum you moderate.


Its' OK tho, sinc weh can undastand waht he's sayin.
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#24REDACTED, Posted: Dec 21 2009 at 11:37 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Elinda,
#25REDACTED, Posted: Dec 21 2009 at 11:44 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Joph,
#26 Dec 21 2009 at 11:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Just think, if the GOP had given up one single vote, we wouldn't have to give Nebraska nothin'!

Man, you Pubbies sure did ***** up there, huh? Smiley: laugh
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