Obama bowing againFollow

By accounts, his decision on which of the four plans to go with was complicated by the US ambassador to Afghanistan (retired US Lt. General Eikenberry) informing Obama that the political situation was so untenable that adding more troops now would just be spinning the wheels. But, if you did more than complain and insist that Obama was doing "nothing", you'd already know that.

Edited, Nov 16th 2009 3:02pm by Jophiel

I agreed with Varus!

I know i'm going to regret this but....

Hey Varus..


What do you think the US should be doing in Afghanistan (assuming for a moment that the US has got a good reason to be in Afghanistan in the first place)?

Really. I'm interested in what you think the US is supposed to be doing there.

It takes an intellectual to recognize another.

No wonder the pubbies don't like Obama. They suspect he's smarter than they are, and they can't put their finger on why.

From what I hear, he can compete against retards.

There's bowing, and there's "bowing". When two heads of state are meeting (or any two people of equal status), a minor bow (more of a head nod) is appropriate and acceptable. It shows respect, but not subservience. Even had Obama done a more formal bow (as Nixon is doing in the picture earlier), it would have been viewed more as an attempt to comply with a cultural norm and an extreme measure to show respect to the other party. In Nixon's case, the meeting was historically monumental so he put out the full decorum. Obama's visit was casual and with an ally, and he certainly didn't do a formal bow, so bowing so low does not make sense.


I don't think he intends the bows he keeps tossing out as subservience, but IMO it shows somewhat of a cultural gap between Obama's perceptions and most of the US (and most of the Western world for that matter). In our society, there is no royalty, nor classes. No one is of a "higher station" than anyone else. We're all supposed to be equals, so bowing just isn't something we do culturally. To see the president of the US bow is unsettling to a whole lot of US citizens, and no amount of Obama's supporters insisting that it doesn't mean anything changes the fact that it does mean something to them.


Obama is representing all of us when he meets with those heads of state, so yeah, it's a bit bothersome to see him essentially throw out a hard held US view on status in ways that don't make sense diplomatically. It makes some wonder if he holds the same views towards equality and class as the rest of us. And that makes some wonder if he's really representing "US", or something else. It's a dumb thing to do politically. It gains him nothing on the foreign front at all, except presumably the snickers of his peers, and costs him quite a bit domestically. I can't imagine that his handlers haven't told him not to do this, especially after the stink raised the last time, which makes me assume it's some kind of habit or thing he thinks he should do no matter how inappropriate it might be. It's just strange to most of us to think that we've got a president who seems in the habit of bowing to other people for no apparent reason. While I know that it's easy to mis-characterize the whole "strong president" thing as arrogance and whatnot, the reality is that a head of state has to be a little bit arrogant. He can't press the needs of his own nation if he's always looking for a way to make the other guy happy. What can be labeled as arrogance, is also a sign of strength. And without that, your nation will be stepped on by everyone else...

You know, I kind of agree with this paragraph. It does show the gap of cultural understanding between the president and many (I wouldn't say most) in the US. Bowing, according to you, makes us unsettled because we're not used to it. Many Americans do not have the cultural knowledge of the custom, and think it shows excessive subservience when it is really just a show of respect. Obama (and many other Americans) on the other hand, realize this, and it doesn't unsettle us at all. We know it's just a "When in Rome..." kind of idea.

I think your point is different than mine, but the seemingly obvious conclusion is that many Americans are clueless when it comes to foreign customs and will find anything to complain about. I agree. Good for Obama for not catering to clueless Americans who are "unsettled" by something as insignificant as a bow. And shame on those same Americans for not taking the time to learn foreign customs and instead trying to deride and ridicule something that is different than what they know.

Meh, so did flag pins. I can only spend so much energy worrying about other people's asinine reasons for wringing their hands.

So you want the person who represents you to look like an arrogant prick instead of a polite and well educated gentleman?

Why do you continue to insist to know what foreign countries think when you get round housed by every one of us every time? You have no idea how much the Emperor of Japan did or didn't appreciate the token gesture. Seeing as how bowing is a sign of respect and common greeting amongst the Japanese, odds are in favour that it was taken well, as opposed to snickered at. That's just common sense.

Why limit yourself? Call it both.