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Stupak amendment won't cover miscarriagesFollow

#1 Nov 09 2009 at 10:35 PM Rating: Excellent
The anti-choice Stupak amendment is going to cause many insurance companies to stop covering miscarriages, because hospitals often consider them medically equivalent to abortions.

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2009/11/09/will-stupak-amendment-force-women-whove-miscarried-lose-insurance-coverage-i-think-so

Quote:
Hospitals and doctors in general do not have terminology to classify a difference between the termination of a live pregnancy and one in which the fetus has already died. To them, a D&C is a D&C, regardless of the state of the "conception materials" removed. Regardless of how many times I made sure to mention to the staff, either for the sake of my sanity or to spare me some sort of imagined shame, that I was ridding myself of my "dead fetus," to them, it was all the same.

I had learned the day before that the baby I thought was nearly 12 weeks old had no heartbeat, and had actually died at 8 weeks. I was given three options: wait for a miscarriage to occur on its own, something I was told my body had no intention of doing anytime soon, take medication that would expel the fetus, passing it in my own home (classified a "chemical abortion") or come in for a D&C to remove the fetal materials.

As much as I struggled with the sudden realization that the pregnancy was over, I also found myself trying to decide financially what I was willing to do. A chemical abortion would cost $40, but I would be alone, bleeding, and it could still be incomplete and I would require a D&C anyway, since my pregnancy was so advanced. Surgery would be quick, total, and under controlled circumstances, but would likely be our full maxed insurance amount of $1500. And of course, there was the free option of waiting for my body to finally realize I wasn't pregnant, but after 4 weeks the risk of infection was steadily climbing, increasing my chances of future miscarriage, infertility, or even death. With a toddler at home, and still nursing hopes for extending our family some day, this was not an option.

I chose the quick and total route of the D&C, despite the costs, prioritizing my health and the health of possible future children. I was lucky, and could afford to make that choice, because currently, my insurance cannot choose to refuse to cover what the hospital has termed an abortion.


And the war on womenfolk's bodies continues!

Edited, Nov 9th 2009 11:38pm by catwho
#2ThiefX, Posted: Nov 09 2009 at 10:54 PM, Rating: Unrated, (Expand Post) Hey Cat I have a question for you and all of the Pro Choice crowd, At what point in the abortion process does the Baby get a choice?
#3 Nov 09 2009 at 10:57 PM Rating: Excellent
ThiefX wrote:
Hey Cat I have a question for you and all of the Pro Choice crowd, At what point in the abortion process does the Baby get a choice?
That's kind of irrelevant if the baby is already dead before any sort of procedure is done, isn't it?

Or are you saying that a dead baby is worth more than a live mother?

(The complaint is that hospitals classify this procedure, when done with a fetus that has died in the womb, as still being an abortion.)

EDIT to add: I'm against abortion in about 99% of cases. Cases where the mother would die, I've got no problem with it because a live mother and a dead baby has more use to society than a live baby and a dead mother.

Edited, Nov 9th 2009 8:59pm by MDenham
#4 Nov 09 2009 at 11:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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ThiefX wrote:
Hey Cat I have a question for you and all of the Pro Choice crowd, At what point in the abortion process does the Baby get a choice?


When they can rent their own apartment.
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Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#5 Nov 09 2009 at 11:04 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Hey Cat I have a question for you and all of the Pro Choice crowd, At what point in the abortion process does the Baby get a choice?


It's not a "baby" when it's on the inside. However, most clinics do abortions up to 12-16weeks, but it varies from state to state. Usually after 16 weeks it requires two different doctors to come to the conclusion that the abortion is medically necessary.

But it wouldn't apply in the OP's case, as the baby had aborted itself. It's only the bureaucracy involved that won't cover the cost of taking the dead goo out that's the problem here, which you should also agree is stupid.
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#6 Nov 09 2009 at 11:05 PM Rating: Good
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ThiefX wrote:
Hey Cat I have a question for you and all of the Pro Choice crowd, At what point in the abortion process does the Baby get a choice?


When it's actually a baby instead of a cluster of a cancerous bunch of parasitic cells.
#7ThiefX, Posted: Nov 09 2009 at 11:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I completly agree.
#8 Nov 09 2009 at 11:16 PM Rating: Good
I'm older and bigger than an embryo, therefore my needs trump its needs. If it's going to kill me, then it's gotta go. Care for the living first, and all that.

However, I take my BC pill religiously so that never should become an issue. (And if it ever does, I think we all agree I lack the necessary emotional maturity for motherhood. Coat hangers and ergot pills it is!)
#9ThiefX, Posted: Nov 09 2009 at 11:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wow a coat hanger joke. I don't know if I should fell sorry for you are sick to my stomach that you you would joke about aborting your baby if you ever got pregnant at an inconvinent time.
#10 Nov 09 2009 at 11:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
ThiefX wrote:
Hey Cat I have a question for you and all of the Pro Choice crowd, At what point in the abortion process does the Baby get a choice?

When they can rent their own apartment.

Sounds extreme. I'll say when they get a job.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#11 Nov 09 2009 at 11:27 PM Rating: Good
ThiefX wrote:
Quote:
However, I take my BC pill religiously so that never should become an issue. (And if it ever does, I think we all agree I lack the necessary emotional maturity for motherhood. Coat hangers and ergot pills it is!)


Wow a coat hanger joke. I don't know if I should fell sorry for you are sick to my stomach that you you would joke about aborting your baby if you ever got pregnant at an inconvinent time.
Well, it's not like she can count on a doctor being willing to do it for her safely...
#12 Nov 09 2009 at 11:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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ThiefX wrote:
Wow a coat hanger joke. I don't know if I should fell sorry for you are sick to my stomach that you you would joke about aborting your baby if you ever got pregnant at an inconvinent time.
"Dr. Zippo's Happy Funtime Abortion Clinic: We bring out the kid in you!"

Smiley: clownSmiley: clownSmiley: clown

Edited, Nov 9th 2009 11:41pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
#13 Nov 09 2009 at 11:35 PM Rating: Decent
Professor AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
"Dr. Zippo's Happy Funtime Abortion Clinic: We bring out the kid in you!"
Rate down.

Not because it's an abortion joke, but because the pun is horrible.
#14 Nov 09 2009 at 11:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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MDenham wrote:
Professor AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
"Dr. Zippo's Happy Funtime Abortion Clinic: We bring out the kid in you!"
Rate down.

Not because it's an abortion joke, but because the pun is horrible.
It's the only abortion joke I know. Smiley: frown
#15 Nov 09 2009 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good
Professor AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
MDenham wrote:
Professor AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
"Dr. Zippo's Happy Funtime Abortion Clinic: We bring out the kid in you!"
Rate down.

Not because it's an abortion joke, but because the pun is horrible.
It's the only abortion joke I know. Smiley: frown
Stick to regular dead baby jokes, then.
#16 Nov 09 2009 at 11:41 PM Rating: Good
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#17 Nov 09 2009 at 11:44 PM Rating: Good
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MDenham wrote:
Professor AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
MDenham wrote:
Professor AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
"Dr. Zippo's Happy Funtime Abortion Clinic: We bring out the kid in you!"
Rate down.

Not because it's an abortion joke, but because the pun is horrible.
It's the only abortion joke I know. Smiley: frown
Stick to regular dead baby jokes, then.
Did you hear about the NASA missions where they were going to send loads of dead babies to the moon?

They were all aborted!
#18 Nov 09 2009 at 11:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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#19 Nov 09 2009 at 11:55 PM Rating: Decent
ThiefX wrote:
Quote:
However, I take my BC pill religiously so that never should become an issue. (And if it ever does, I think we all agree I lack the necessary emotional maturity for motherhood. Coat hangers and ergot pills it is!)


Wow a coat hanger joke. I don't know if I should fell sorry for you are sick to my stomach that you you would joke about aborting your baby if you ever got pregnant at an inconvinent time.

How sad, it's obvious that you lack maturity in other things besides motherhood.


How sad, it's obvious that you lack basic reading/writing skills in all things relevant. You know, your opinion might carry a minuscule amount more weight around here if you didn't constantly do everything in your power to exude complete stupidity at every possible opportunity.
#20 Nov 10 2009 at 12:13 AM Rating: Excellent
If this amendment passes, coat hangers will be the only option available for many many women in the country.

Daily Kos has already nicknamed the Stupak amendment "the coathanger amendment" because of the extreme steps it's taking to limit access to abortions.

My genetics are far too messed up for me to reproduce. If there was a method of genetic modification where I could ensure that my child would not be an autistic bipolar schizophrenic (all things my mother/sisters/husband have), I'd reconsider. But even pre-implantation genetic diagnosis is considered horrible to the anti-choice crowd, since undesireable embryos are destroyed. So my best bet is to make sure it never ever comes to that point.

I actually agree with the spirit of the amendment, in that if there's nothing obviously wrong with the pregnancy, the mother and fetus are both healthy, and there's no medical, physical, or mental health reason to terminate, and she's just doing it because she's a baby hater like I am, then a woman probably should cough up the cash for an abortion herself. What's $1500 compared to the $200,000 it is estimated to raise a child to the age of 18, after all?

But for the women this bill is intended to cover, those under %400 of the poverty line, it would be a horrible, heart wrenching decision to have to either pay $1500 to get an already dead fetus extracted or risk an infection that leads to death. Ectopic pregnancies, which is where the embryo incorrectly impacted in the Fallopian tube, will also probably not be covered, and those require a fairly invasive surgery.

Instead of this amendment, language should have been put in the bill that prevents insurance companies from considering a caesarian section a pre-existing condition. Women are being denied insurance because they previously gave birth to a healthy child through C-section, meaning they're likely to require a second one for another child. That should be of WAY more concern to fundies - that women who chose to give birth to their child are being punished for it.

But, oh, right. Women have no rights. Children after they are born don't matter. Who cares about uninsured mothers and their infants? They aren't fetuses, after all!
#21 Nov 10 2009 at 12:17 AM Rating: Good
catwho, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
Instead of this amendment, language should have been put in the bill that prevents insurance companies from considering a caesarian section a pre-existing condition.
What I find entertaining about that is that usually it's the insurance company that insisted that a C-section be done in the first place when it wasn't actually necessary...
#22 Nov 10 2009 at 12:18 AM Rating: Excellent
I believe it's because the woman and/or child is much less likely to die have expensive complications with a C-section.

Edit: Rethought it.

Edited, Nov 10th 2009 1:19am by catwho
#23 Nov 10 2009 at 12:25 AM Rating: Good
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ThiefX wrote:

How sad, it's obvious that you lack maturity in other things besides motherhood.


Somehow I doubt any sort of reliable gauge for maturity rests in the hands of a dude who relies on tired and scientifically laughable cliches as the basis for his so-called "argument."
#24 Nov 10 2009 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
catwho, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
I believe it's because the woman and/or child is much less likely to die have expensive complications with a C-section.

Edit: Rethought it.

Edited, Nov 10th 2009 1:19am by catwho
I think it's because it gives them an excuse to then drop you and refuse to cover you, but I'm biased against insurance companies ever since I learned that Varus sells insurance.
#25 Nov 10 2009 at 12:34 AM Rating: Good
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ThiefX wrote:
Hey Cat I have a question for you and all of the Pro Choice crowd, At what point in the abortion process does the Baby get a choice?



Ignorant and tired cliche aside, what does that have to do with the subject at hand here? Did you even read the article Cat linked?

Are you saying you think it's right to penalize a woman for requiring some medical assistance to remove a fetus which died naturally in utero?
#26 Nov 10 2009 at 1:10 AM Rating: Decent
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This amendment doesn't make any goddamn sense. A miscarriage isn't an abortion.
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