HR 3962 - Is it Doable? :: Free Realms

#102 ThiefX, Posted: Nov 07 2009 at 11:29 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I guess Carter got his second term, and you know I was just thinking the other day when I was looking at my paycheck that there is just too much money in it and I hoped the Democratic controlled house and senate would pass a trillion dollar government take over of 1/8th of the US economy and raise my taxes and take even more from me and at the same time diminish the level of my healthcare.

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#103 Nov 07 2009 at 11:38 PM Rating: Good

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To pay for the expansion of coverage, the bill cuts Medicare's projected spending by more than $400 billion over a decade.

The above worries me. My mother is handicapped and on Medicare. Hate to see her be unable to get health care just so someone else, who can probably afford their own, get it instead.

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#104 Nov 08 2009 at 12:17 AM Rating: Decent

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Jophiel wrote:

House bill passed 220-214 at 11:14pm Eastern.

One more step towards the Obamacommunazi wonderland of the future!

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#105 Nov 08 2009 at 12:21 AM Rating: Excellent

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Wall Street Journal wrote:

Seniors on Medicare: Over time, the bill would close a gap in prescription drug coverage. Currently, Medicare participants are responsible for paying drugs' full price in the "doughnut hole," which kicks in when their drug spending exceeds $2,700 and goes up to $6,154 per year.

Medicare recipients would no longer have to pay out of pocket for preventive care. Certain early retirees could tap into a new fund that offsets the cost of high-cost health claims.

Since cuts to Medicare spending are one of the bill's biggest funding sources, some benefits could evaporate from the program. Core benefits aren't likely to be affected. Most likely to be eliminated are benefits such as free fitness classes offered by private insurers who cover some people on Medicare.

Between looking over the CBO's cost estimates for the bill and the WSJ remarks, it sounds as though much of the Medicare savings will come from adjustments to its fee-for-service rates, especially "private fee-for services" which are essentially Medicare paying for private clinics to do the same things already offered through Medicare's HMO style clinics. There's a breakdown of this whole thing written up here describing what PFFS's are and their cost. There's also the host of other reductions in the form of "Streamlining this and that part of the bureaucray will save us X many dollars and focusing more on preventing issues can save us Y dollars" estimates.

Edited, Nov 8th 2009 12:44am by Jophiel

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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.

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#106 Nov 08 2009 at 12:28 AM Rating: Good

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Out of curiosity, are there any other provisions relating to preventative care in general?

(I ask because, really, if I were going to try and improve the health care system in an incremental way, the best way to half-*** it would have been for the government to basically provide everyone with insurance coverage solely for preventative care. Net result: problems get caught sooner, treatment is then usually cheaper, and the cost is quite a bit lower. Anyone complaining about that idea really is saying "people who don't have or can't get insurance at present aren't important enough to pay attention to; why can't they just go and die and quit bothering us?")

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#107 ThiefX, Posted: Nov 08 2009 at 1:34 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I would say you could just ask your senator but if he or she is like most of the people who voted for this government take over of 1/8th of the US economy they didn't read it and have really no idea what they just voted for.

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#108 Nov 08 2009 at 1:38 AM Rating: Good

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The 2010 elections are gonna be so much fun.

Agreed, should be interesting. People voting on this issue will come down to the fact that while everyone hates paying higher taxes/premiums, everyone's going to love having health insurance & not getting denied coverage.

Well, everyone except for people who make their money off of private insurance companies.

But you & me both know jobs are going to be the main issue & you'd be silly to think otherwise.

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#109 Nov 08 2009 at 3:02 AM Rating: Excellent

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Getting to have health coverage when you don't have a job through no fault of your own might make some people desperately thankful.

Edited, Nov 8th 2009 4:40am by Aripyanfar

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#110 Nov 08 2009 at 3:03 AM Rating: Decent

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ThiefX wrote:

I would say you could just ask your senator but if he or she is like most of the people who voted for this government take over of 1/8th of the US economy they didn't read it and have really no idea what they just voted for.

Not like you read it, Algernon.

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#111 Nov 08 2009 at 3:16 AM Rating: Good

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ThiefX wrote:

I would say you could just ask your senator but if he or she is like most of the people who voted for this government take over of 1/8th of the US economy they didn't read it and have really no idea what they just voted for.

I could read it myself instead. That'd take less time than waiting for a response from my senator.

And, seriously, you don't think there's something wrong that people being sick is 12+% of the economy? Think before you answer, please. (If you can't, just don't bother answering.)

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#112 ThiefX, Posted: Nov 08 2009 at 10:07 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes I can read it myself too, but the problem is that the majority of the people who voted on this trillion dollar+ take over of the healthcare system did not.

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#113 Nov 08 2009 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent

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Joseph Cao read it! He put up a YouTube video of himself taking it home to sit and read through it all and everything!

Then he voted for it. Hey, maybe he's the only Republican who actually read through it?

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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.

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#114 ThiefX, Posted: Nov 08 2009 at 10:48 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well if it's on youtube then it must be real!!!! If a senator who just voted for socialized healthcare and screwed over millions of working tax paying people posted a video of himself on youtube reading it then Im sure h read every line very carefully and so did all of the other senators who voted for this mess.

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#115 Nov 08 2009 at 11:03 AM Rating: Excellent

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My only big concern with the bill was the excessive provision against any payment at all for any kind of abortion whatsoever.

I'd like to see a lawsuit the first time a woman dies of an ectopic pregnancy because the public option wouldn't cover the necessary surgery.

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#116 Nov 08 2009 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good

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ThiefX wrote:

something like a 700 billion stimulus package that has done nothing but cost the tax payers more money and stuck them with a debt that their grandkids grandkids will be paying for and done nothing to stop unemployment from going over 10% without reading it right

Hey, look guys! The problem with the health care reform bill is actually all about the stimulus plan! I'm glad to see you're all for it now. :)

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#117 Nov 08 2009 at 1:26 PM Rating: Default

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Hey, look guys! The problem with the health care reform bill is actually all about the stimulus plan! I'm glad to see you're all for it now. :)

No it has to do with it being just another poorly run and thought of Liberal Idea that hurts the people in this country that actually contribute to society. And it has to do with the same people who are trying to sell this government take over of the healthcare system are the same people who hoist up poorly run programs like social security and medicare both of which are bankrupt or going broke as why we should let them run Healthcare.

And it has to do with these same people who passed a 700+billion dollar government handout without reading it passing a trillion dollar healthcare bill without reading it and then saying how great it is.

Edited, Nov 8th 2009 2:43pm by ThiefX

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#118 Nov 08 2009 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good

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ThiefX wrote:

No it has to do with it being just another poorly run

Hasn't even started yet.

ThiefX wrote:

and thought of Liberal Idea

I don't know that you can consider it a "Liberal Idea" when it was more of a "Well the rest of the civilized world has it already so maybe we should consider this..." concept.

ThiefX wrote:

that hurts the people in this country that actually contribute to society.

You know what else hurts people that contribute to society? Your stupidity. Let's vote to have you banished.

ThiefX wrote:

the same people who tell us how well social security, medicare and the stimulus have worked.

Just because you don't like how something works doesn't mean that it isn't working.

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#119 ThiefX, Posted: Nov 08 2009 at 1:39 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) And their healthcare system is so wonderful that countless of them come here to use our "sub-standard" system? That makes sense

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#120 Nov 08 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good

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ThiefX wrote:

And their healthcare system is so wonderful that countless of them come here to use our "sub-standard" system? That makes sense

cite plz.

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#121 Nov 08 2009 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good

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ThiefX wrote:

You're right a program that is bankrupt or going broke is obviously working

Wait, so if a company runs out of money, they're automatically a failure in everything they've ever done? Do you even know why the social security system is running out of money?

ThiefX wrote:

And their healthcare system is so wonderful that countless of them come here to use our "sub-standard" system? That makes sense

C+, you gave it some effort but you did a pretty ****** job considering this was just talked about in this very thread.

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#122 Nov 08 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent

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ThiefX wrote:

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Just because you don't like how something works doesn't mean that it isn't working.

You're right a program that is bankrupt or going broke is obviously working

You do realize that Social Security is not a for-profit organization which has to keep its books in the black, right?

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#123 Nov 08 2009 at 2:06 PM Rating: Excellent

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ThiefX wrote:

Well if it's on youtube then it must be real!!!! If a senator who just voted for socialized healthcare and screwed over millions of working tax paying people posted a video of himself on youtube reading it then Im sure h read every line very carefully and so did all of the other senators who voted for this mess.

Absolutely! I mean, it's just as convincing as any claims that the Republicans who voted against it read it. In fact, given that they were already going to vote against it no matter what, I would wager hard cash that fewer than 5% of the GOP House has read the bill and that the 5% who did, did so purely to find things to complain about.

By the way, Cao is a House Rep, not a Senator. The bill that passed was the House bill, not the Senate bill. Acting as though you've paid some attention to the news in past week would go a ways towards making your rants sound like actual arguments.

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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.

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#124 Nov 08 2009 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent

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ThiefX wrote:

And their healthcare system is so wonderful that countless of them come here to use our "sub-standard" system? That makes sense

It's not "countless" at all. In fact, go back a page and you'll find discussion of two different studies on medical tourism. One of which places the number of inbound tourists nearly twice as high as outbound tourists and another which states that most people coming to the US for medical care are coming here from developing nations, not from Canada or Europe.

It also mentions that many people who come here for medical treatment still have their bills paid for by their national insurance/health care programs so, unlike American citizens, they don't have to deal with our ridiculous rising costs.

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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.

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#125 ThiefX, Posted: Nov 08 2009 at 2:13 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes I am aware that it's for non profit but that doesn't mean that it should bleed money and be run into the ground by the same people who now want to run healthcare.

#126 ThiefX, Posted: Nov 08 2009 at 2:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ok Joph for the sake of argument lets say most of the GOP who voted against it just like most of the Democrats who voted for it never read it.

HR 3962 - Is it Doable?Follow