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HR 3962 - Is it Doable?Follow

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#27 Nov 06 2009 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:

The only reason this thing is failing is because the majority of people don't want it. If the people actually wanted this the Dems would just laugh at the GOP and tell them to f*ck off; much like they're doing now.


So you're saying the people want this, right? Thanks for clearing that up.
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#28 Nov 06 2009 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Majivo,

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I voted yes. It's not quite all I would want, but at this point I'll be glad if we can get anything to pass, considering how much the Dems have been conceding to appease a party that only wants blood.


So the president and his party control congress yet somehow they still have to appease the GOP?


Yes. Because every vote counts. As much as you'd like to claim that liberals are taking over the country and you've been all but stripped of representation at the federal level, I'm here to tell you, there are just enough idiots representing you to make things difficult for rest of country.

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Please kill yourself now


You first. Have some kool-aid.

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and save the rest of us from having to take care of you when you're in your diapers living off the work of others.


I'd much rather pay taxes to take care of Majivo and 90% of the other posters on this forum than I would you.

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The only reason this thing is failing is because the majority of people don't want it. If the people actually wanted the Dems would just laugh at the GOP and tell them to f*ck off; much like they're doing now.


Could you be any more self-contradictory?

Edited, Nov 6th 2009 10:44am by BrownDuck
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#29 Nov 06 2009 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Majivo,

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I voted yes. It's not quite all I would want, but at this point I'll be glad if we can get anything to pass, considering how much the Dems have been conceding to appease a party that only wants blood.


So the president and his party control congress yet somehow they still have to appease the GOP? Are you that f*cking stupid? Please kill yourself now and save the rest of us from having to take care of you when you're in your diapers living off the work of others.

The only reason this thing is failing is because the majority of people don't want it. If the people actually wanted this the Dems would just laugh at the GOP and tell them to f*ck off; much like they're doing now.
Well, except for the part where the majority of people do want it. But yeah, I understand the idea of wanting to work with people to improve the US, rather then fighting everything for no reason other then getting some sort of power is a foreign idea to you.
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#30 Nov 06 2009 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
publiusvarus wrote:
Majivo,

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I voted yes. It's not quite all I would want, but at this point I'll be glad if we can get anything to pass, considering how much the Dems have been conceding to appease a party that only wants blood.


So the president and his party control congress yet somehow they still have to appease the GOP? Are you that f*cking stupid? Please kill yourself now and save the rest of us from having to take care of you when you're in your diapers living off the work of others.

The only reason this thing is failing is because the majority of people don't want it. If the people actually wanted this the Dems would just laugh at the GOP and tell them to f*ck off; much like they're doing now.
Well, except for the part where the majority of people do want it. But yeah, I understand the idea of wanting to work with people to improve the US, rather then fighting everything for no reason other then getting some sort of power is a foreign idea to you.


To be fair, the vast majority of people want reform. That doesn't mean a majority want THIS reform. There might be statistics to back that up, though.
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#31REDACTED, Posted: Nov 06 2009 at 10:46 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Locked,
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#32 Nov 06 2009 at 10:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
If this is so important why the rush? You know why and you're scared sh*tless, and you should be.
It's an urgent issue, that's part of what makes it important. It's not something that we can slowly fix, it's a crisis now, not in 10 years. If I were an american I would be deeply concerned about the healthcare system Now. No one is looking 10 years in the future and saying oh, it's going to become bad. They're looking at the present, realizing it's a system in crisis Now. Of course it will only get worse if left alone.

Edited, Nov 6th 2009 10:56am by Xsarus
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#33 Nov 06 2009 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
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So the president and his party control congress yet somehow they still have to appease the GOP?


It's more like, "have conscience, and remorse, and think that your totally hypocritical and harmful opinion should be considered in the name of democracy."

Or not. Believe whatever you'd like. If you want the main party of right now to totally ignore anything you have to say, I'm all for it. We can lobby Washington together.
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#34 Nov 06 2009 at 10:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Locked,

You know reading works a lot better if you don't pick and choose which sentences you want to read.


Reading worked just fine. Your writing was the issue, not our reading of it :-P

And Democrats took an HoR seat in New York. So, yeah, I'm thinking your wrong. Political pressure is obviously part of the rush; but not in the way you think. The longer the healthcare reform debate rages, the less Obama's team gets done on other fronts, and the more outside money comes in to try and sway public opinion. There's no doubt the country is getting tired of this debate, and that hurts the democrats in polls. But they knew that when they took up the cause, and they know that getting this passed will help the country. They chose the risk instead of mouthing promises and ignoring the issue, like previous administrations did.
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#35REDACTED, Posted: Nov 06 2009 at 10:56 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Xarus,
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#36 Nov 06 2009 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Xarus,

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It's an urgent issue, that's part of what makes it important. It's not something that we can slowly fix, it's a crisis now, not in 10 years.


Obviously you and I have different understandings of the word 'crisis'. I tend to think not being able to keep the power on or feed myself as a crisis. Not whether or not I can afford to pay my health insurance. You've been told this is a crisis and it needs to be fixed now and only the Dems can save us all. Doesn't make it true but it sure scares people like yourself.

And most people with a shred of empathy consider the unnecessary suffering of millions unable to afford a basic necessity to be a crisis. The fact that you can't look past your material toys does not make this any less true.
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#37 Nov 06 2009 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
To be fair, the vast majority of people want reform. That doesn't mean a majority want THIS reform. There might be statistics to back that up, though.

The polling, if anything, shows a tremendous amount of ignorance on what's going on. You can have, in the same poll, a question where "Do you approve or disapprove of the bill in Congress?" shows 49% disapprove, 38% approve and the rest undecided and then ask "Do you want a public option?", "Should high end plans be taxed?", "Is universal coverage more important than cost control?" and get "Yes" answers by significant margins on all of them. Basically, people don't know what the hell is going on.

Not to pick on Sevlrin but I think her example of someone who wants a public option, a mandate to not exclude for pre-existing conditions, etc and was unaware that this bill covered those (and so was on the fence about it and disapproved of things that didn't exist in it) shows a real problem with messaging on the part of the Democrats.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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#38 Nov 06 2009 at 11:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Xarus,

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It's an urgent issue, that's part of what makes it important. It's not something that you can slowly fix, it's a crisis now, not in 10 years.


Obviously you and I have different understandings of the word 'crisis'. I tend to think not being able to keep the power on or feed myself as a crisis. Not whether or not I can afford to pay my health insurance. You've been told this is a crisis and it needs to be fixed now and only the Dems can save us all. Doesn't make it true but it sure scares people like yourself.
I have to say, enjoying my nationalized health care in Canada, I'm not terribly frightened. This is me looking in and seeing a system in serious trouble. If you can't pay your health insurance, that's a pretty serious crisis for you. Keep on living in your bubble.
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#39REDACTED, Posted: Nov 06 2009 at 11:25 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
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#40 Nov 06 2009 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
LMAO...good one. Like the Democrats want the people to know what is and isn't in this plan.

Umm.... ok.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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#41REDACTED, Posted: Nov 06 2009 at 11:27 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Xarus,
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#42 Nov 06 2009 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Xarus,

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If you can't pay your health insurance, that's a pretty serious crisis for you. Keep on living in your bubble.


If you can't find food that's a serious crisis.
Absolutely. That probably explains why people develop programs to deal with that sort of thing.
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#43 Nov 06 2009 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd think they'd go back to Canada for their true public health care than dink around with our public insurance.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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#44 Nov 06 2009 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Not to pick on Sevlrin but I think her example of someone who wants a public option, a mandate to not exclude for pre-existing conditions, etc and was unaware that this bill covered those (and so was on the fence about it and disapproved of things that didn't exist in it) shows a real problem with messaging on the part of the Democrats.


Don't worry Jophiel. I don't feel picked on. I think the situation my family is in is pretty normal for the working poor. Let me tell you more about myself so you can understand my position. I am a stay-at-home mother. I would like to work and help out financially, but daycare is too expensive. I have asthma, though I haven't had an attack since moving to Utah because the air is cleaner than Los Angeles. My husband has esonophillic esophogitis(sp?). It acts like a food allergy, but is not an allergy. We do not smoke, drink or party. We are about 10 pounds overweight though.

You are also right Jophiel. The Democrats need to do better about getting the correct information out there. If more people had the information, more people would support it.
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#45REDACTED, Posted: Nov 06 2009 at 11:58 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Xarus,
#46REDACTED, Posted: Nov 06 2009 at 12:00 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sevlrin,
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#47 Nov 06 2009 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
And these programs are called JOBS.
food stamps are jobs now?
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Why should they care about getting info out when all Democrats will goose step right along with whatever the Democrat party proposes? Hell you're supporting it and you don't know anything about it.
no, she didn't support it, now that she has more information she does.
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#48 Nov 06 2009 at 12:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Sevlrin,

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You are also right Jophiel. The Democrats need to do better about getting the correct information out there. If more people had the information, more people would support it.


Why should they care about getting info out when all Democrats will goose step right along with whatever the Democrat party proposes? Hell you're supporting it and you don't know anything about it.


Actually she abstained. Please see the discussion above. With more information, she wished she could changer her answer. It's the same way in the real world. Most people agree they want several types of major reforms; the Democrats haven't done an adequate job of saying what they are offering in the bill, as it meets most of those concerns. It's a problem.

If you think the bill is so bad, Varus, wouldn't you also want information on it to get out? Then people could see it's bad. You know, assuming it is a bad bill.
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#49REDACTED, Posted: Nov 06 2009 at 12:17 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Locked,
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#50 Nov 06 2009 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Locked,

When did they release this newest version? How big is it? Do most people have jobs?


Uh, it was already linked in this thread. It's like 2000 pages. And yes, most people have jobs. So I guess what you're saying is, no, you don't want to read it or find out what is in it, but you want to get huffy over it?

Or you want unemployment to rise so that more people have time to read healthcare reform, thus ensuring it will be passed. Tricky!

Edited, Nov 6th 2009 1:24pm by LockeColeMA
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#51 Nov 06 2009 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
And yes, most people have jobs.


Silly. 90% isn't "most." It's "a few."
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