Dirty Stinking Government HealthcareFollow

If inoculation for H1N1 (or anything else) was made compulsory for health workers it would be a huge mistake.

1. It undermines the consensual nature of healthcare and everything that health workers believe in. (We do not agree with 'inflicting' treatments onto patients.

2. Go on. Make it compulsory. What happens then if enough doctors and nurses refuse? And huge numbers will. You gonna close the hospital? Thats gonna help!

3. Doctors and Nurses refusing to take it in large numbers isn't going to make it very easy to convince the public at large its a good idea for them to have it.

Like I said before. Read the literature (not the internetz blogs), decide what risk factors are important to you, and then decide if you want to get an injection to perhaps protect you from something that almost definatly wont cause you any more inconvenience than a few days off work (you kno, like seasonal flu does).

Up to you innit?

I know what i'm doing.

And why.

The politically insurmountable childish ******** of a lot of health-care workers doesn't mean you're any less irresponsible for refusing to prevent illness.



Of course not. You just agree with inflicting illness onto them.



You care more about self than patients? This is like JW refusing to give children blood transfusions. You don't have the freedom to do whatever you want when you voluntarily and intentionally take on the responsibility of other people's health.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2009 11:40pm by Pensive

I have watched zero television in the last five years. It would be stupid to watch even if I did have cable, as television cuts into videogame time.

Good God, you're a paramedic?

I do not want to be in need of emergency care while in your area. I'll probably get in the ambulance with a broken foot and leave with syphilis.



Evolution doesn't work like that. Evolution works like this: people who fight off the disease live, people who don't die. The people who live get to reproduce, the people who die don't. The change is on a species-wide scale and takes ages. You don't just suddenly develop a mutant healing factor and bone claws.



Because lung cancer isn't an infectious virus, you retarded hippy. That is the worst analogy I've seen today, and I just read posts by ThiefX and soulshaver.

Seriously. I do not want a surgeon with influenza sticking his head and hands inside my chest while I'm all pumped up with immunosuppressants and whatnot. I don't give a **** about his consent! He can consent to not being a doctor and get a different job where he isn't responsible for other people's health.

Do you think they voluntarily sterilise their instruments? Do you think they wear the gloves and masks to unsettle you? They do those things for a reason, and it's the same reason they all get vaccinated. If my doctor was treating me while he had the flu, I would be just as worried as if he had come at me wielding a rusty scalpel.

I don't think it should be compulsory (although some vaccines are depending on the workplace; Flea has to be up on her vaccines to work in her hospital), I just thought you were wrong in your statement that getting vaccinated is about the health of the health care profressional.

It's alright. I've been ******** than normal in the last week. I don't actually think you hate patients.

Oh I was confused because I had been listening to the experts that have been studying immune systems their whole lives. Obviously a random, ignorant, anonymous person posting on a forum is going to know that it is much more simple than the scientists try to make it.



Oh really I thought I would just suddenly become immune like HE-MAN.

This is a perfect example of the neurotic strawman arguments ya'll come up with while tripping over yourselves to try to make some half-witted clever insult that doesn't fit into the conversation or accurately address the issue.

Could you possibly consider not only your own health but the health of future generations of people when deciding whether or not to get the vaccination? Do any of you know anything about how the flu adapts to our immune systems over the years? Is any of this being considered in the debate, or is it just short-sighted panic with people clawing all over each other to try to save themselves first and worry about that other stuff later?

If any of you are interested in some meaningful and educated debate about the merits of the vaccine and not some dim-witted insult-fest, there is a good article in the recent Atlantic over the issues that some doctors and professional biological engineers have in administering the new drug with regard to how the flu interacts with the human immune system.

Do you really think you learned everything there is to know about the human immune system in 5th grade Biology?

If you looked at any of the scientific literature or talked to any experts, you would find out we are a LONG way away from understanding much about the immune system, how it works, how it interacts with the environment around us and how it adapts to new biological threats over time.

You probably still believe in your high school physics lessons too, eh? I guess we can just ignore quantum mechanics because it interferes with our presumptuous attitude about how much we know about everything.



I really have no idea what you mean by my original statement or the other quote you used. When I mentioned evolution, that was my concern in addition to many others and I also realize that these systems operate in ways that I don't understand so there may be more concerns that I haven't thought of yet.

This is another perfect example of a presumptuous know-it-all attitude where you are just plain wrong.

The influenza virus doesn't so much adapt to immune systems as it mutates in ways that trick the immune system into thinking it's not the flu. This would happen regardless of whether people are immunized against it; considering this latest mutation happened in pigs (hence "swine flu") and not people, I'd say that the tons of people who were immunized against it in the 1976 flu season, either with a vaccine or by getting the actual flu, had very little to do with the mutated form of the virus that is hitting everyone now.

There are lots of camps that say sterile environments cause asthma, or vaccines cause autism, etc. I've got my own camp, which is that vital nutrients aren't passed from mother to child when a baby is bottle fed, including things that go into the immune system and antigens. My little corner in the immune system wars has a ton more evidence than the other two do, from peer reviewed research journals.

I agree 100%. However, for every peer reviewed article we cite, there is another one with a counter argument in "another camp," so my basic point is that what we think we know about science and medicine is based on many assumptions which may or may not be true, and we may discover in 50-10,000 years that we have been "doing it wrong" this whole time.

I'm not assuming thats the case either, I'm just saying its a possibility and we should keep an open mind and not think that we "know" what we are talking about, especially when the professionals and experts aren't in complete agreement. It's not a black and white issue.

Here is one of the articles in the Atlantic that addressed the vaccine issue and examines the studies done that have "proven" for some people that it is effective.

Does the Vaccine Matter?

...and then people wholeheartedly believe that Columbus discovered America and matter is solid.

It appears to me that the writers of that report are knuckle dragging malcontents.


No kidding ********* those figures are only from people who die from influenza not from alternate causes. Your Gbaji-like reading comprehension appears to be the source of your omnipresent idiocy. And this is their entire case for the article.



Once again, the writers show their irrepressible mongoloid tendencies. Wow, your data is such a stirring exposé! People with compromised immunodefense systems are more likely to get sick than healthy people! And this hold true even after vaccination? What a shocker. Why, one would think this would be due to having a weakened immune system and not a flaw with the vaccine!

Failing to account for simple pathogenic activity whereby one person getting sick can result in passing said sickness to another more vulnerable party is crack work too. It's nice that you have no coherent ideas about pathogenic activity yet are able to make such strident recommendations to the heath-care community.

I do applaud you work in what seems to be a self-selecting eugenics plan, whereby you can mislead moronic population clusters in efforts to kill themselves off with via the factually incorrect and intellectually bankrupt 'pseudoknowledge' you feed to them.

You are truly a shining beacon of light in these dark times. So intuitive!

You're that completely out of touch with what you came into this thread saying? Remarkable.



Go back, find my first reply to you in this thread. Read what I quoted.



I'm not saying you changed your position in regards to the evolution thing. I can somewhat understand how you are under that impression, but if you go back, you'll notice that I quoted something else before noting the change.



How would I know when I didn't take high school physics? I can guess it's the same but with some calculus, but since you think its garbage then you probably don't understand why its taught in the first place.