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Gore VidalFollow

#1 Oct 08 2009 at 2:31 AM Rating: Excellent
Seems a bit crazy in his old age, doesn't he?

And yet, I agree with him on lots of points. Ok, maybe not the Oklahoma bomber thing. And I think he might be confusing his own personal decline with the US's decline. But other than that, I'm finding myself reluctantly agreeing with a lot of what he says.

Here are a few snipets:

Quote:
Yet now, he says, it is clear the American experiment has been "a failure". It was all for nothing. Soon the country will be ranked "somewhere between Brazil and Argentina, where it belongs." The Empire will collapse militarily in Afghanistan; the nation will collapse internally when Obama is broken "by the madhouse" and the Chinese call in the country's debts. A ruined United States will then be "the Yellow Man's Burden", and "they'll have us running the coolie cars, or whatever it is they have in the way of transport"


Quote:
"I was like everyone else when Obama was elected – optimistic. Everything we had been saying about racial integration was vindicated," he says, "but he's incompetent. He will be defeated for re-election. It's a pity because he's the first intellectual president we've had in many years, but he can't hack it. He's not up to it. He's overwhelmed. And who wouldn't be? The United States is a madhouse. The country should be put away – and we're being told to go away. Nothing makes any sense." The President "wants to be liked by everybody, and he thought all he had to do was talk reason. But remember – the Republican Party is not a political party. It's a mindset, like Hitler Youth. It's full of hatred. You're not going to get them aboard. Don't even try. The only way to handle them is to terrify them. He's too delicate for that."


So, Gore Vidal: Prophet or Lunatic?
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#2 Oct 08 2009 at 3:26 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
and the Chinese call in the country's debts.


This is not in China's interest because of this:

Quote:
A ruined United States will then be "the Yellow Man's Burden"


and many other reasons that are so obvious, they don't need to be listed.

This I can believe.
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Soon the country will be ranked "somewhere between Brazil and Argentina

Because of news like this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8292011.stm wrote:
The dollar has fallen following a report that Gulf states are in secret talks to replace the greenback as the main currency for the trading of oil...This however, I can easily see because of things like this:

The Independent's report said the Gulf states wished to replace the dollar over a nine-year period with a basket of currencies including the yen, China's yuan, the euro, and the new unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, which include Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates and Qatar.

Kuwait also denied the article's claim.

"We have never discussed or proposed this," said Kuwaiti Oil Minister Sheikh Ahmad Abdullah al-Sabah.

China's central bank suggested in March that the dollar should be replaced by a new global reserve currency run by the International Monetary Fund.


Quote:
"I was like everyone else when Obama was elected – optimistic. Everything we had been saying about racial integration was vindicated," he says, "but he's incompetent. He will be defeated for re-election. It's a pity because he's the first intellectual president we've had in many years, but he can't hack it. He's not up to it. He's overwhelmed. And who wouldn't be? The United States is a madhouse. The country should be put away – and we're being told to go away. Nothing makes any sense." The President "wants to be liked by everybody, and he thought all he had to do was talk reason. But remember – the Republican Party is not a political party. It's a mindset, like Hitler Youth. It's full of hatred. You're not going to get them aboard. Don't even try. The only way to handle them is to terrify them. He's too delicate for that."


Not really going to touch this, except to say that our country has always been fucked up. With the advent of the internet and 24 hour news, this complete lack of sanity has been pushed into the limelight and is pounded upon every second of every day. I think our country is just as insane as it has ever been, it just seems like this level has increased (which maybe it has, or will, with the hysterical tone that seems to increase).

Edited, Oct 8th 2009 6:27am by Paskil
#3 Oct 08 2009 at 4:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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The thing about the "White Man's Burden" is that the Africans and Indians and other assorted dusky hued people didn't have modern weapons and intercontinental ballistic missiles.

Also, China's held debt is largely in the form of bonds which can't be "called in" until they mature. The dates of which are staggered and go on far after Obama, broken by madhouses, has left office.
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#4 Oct 08 2009 at 4:34 AM Rating: Good
China and the US are in co-dependent economic lock, and if they break it then the Chinese banking system will collapse. Militarily, the USA is invincible. Though I suspect the US will bleed power in certain areas, e.g. the pacific, over the next couple of decades, this can amount to no more than a slow loss of global power. The United States will not be like Brazil - the populace is, despite, the stereotype, too well educated. India is illiterate, China is facing the worst demographic crisis in the world; I doubt either will actually collapse, but neither of them has the power to become top dog.

As for Pearl Harbour, while it's quite probable that the US was trying to provoke Japan into war, it's unlikely the loss of the fleet was intended. The evidence for this is nothing more than an ignored intelligence report - if I had a thousand pounds for every time Montgomery ignored an ULTRA report I would be a considerably wealthy man. The assumption of unwavering, inhuman competence in leaders is a feature of so many conspiracy theories, and it's part of why they're so rarely true. You would have to be as mad as Vidal to throw away that many battleships, that many aircraft in a war you were previously uncertain you were going to win. I think he's blinded by his hatred of the US; understandable, really. I'm sure many of us have struggled with the same thing.

He might be right about Obama, though, although I think that's more of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.
#5 Oct 08 2009 at 4:35 AM Rating: Excellent
I can't take anyone serious that says sh*t like "they'll have us running the coolie cars, or whatever it is they have in the way of transport".

Doesn't he know it's 3 person, coal powered, tandem bike?

Quack.

Edited, Oct 8th 2009 7:36am by Kaelesh
#6 Oct 08 2009 at 5:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Great article RP, thanks for pointing it out Smiley: thumbsup
#7 Oct 08 2009 at 5:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Goggy wrote:
Great article RP, thanks for pointing it out Smiley: thumbsup

I enjoyed it so much I stole some of it to start a new thread in the OOT with.

Modern communications seem to have put unwarranted expectations on the pace of legislative and bureaucratic change. Something like starting up a public healthcare option, I would expect to take 3-5 years. Poor Obama. Expected to change the nation overnight.


Let me tell you a potted history of Australia's public healthcare: It got introduced by our Left leaning government. The next time the Right leaning government got in, they dismantled the public option. The Lefties got in again and put it back in. The righties got in, and privatised it. They got promptly tossed out, by a public that had decided that they all liked having it after all. Now the Righties don't dare touch it. It's an embedded part of Australian infrastructure. All that the Left and Right wings do is fiddle with the details of it, refining what is offered and what is not.
#8 Oct 08 2009 at 7:57 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Militarily, the USA is invincible.


There are areas in which the US military is quite vulnerable or could be made quite vulnerable. It is however, very powerful.
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#9 Oct 08 2009 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
Timelordwho wrote:
Quote:
Militarily, the USA is invincible.


There are areas in which the US military is quite vulnerable or could be made quite vulnerable. It is however, very powerful.


I <3 DARPA
#10 Oct 08 2009 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Let me tell you a potted history of Australia's public healthcare: It got introduced by our Left leaning government. The next time the Right leaning government got in, they dismantled the public option. The Lefties got in again and put it back in. The righties got in, and privatised it. They got promptly tossed out, by a public that had decided that they all liked having it after all. Now the Righties don't dare touch it. It's an embedded part of Australian infrastructure. All that the Left and Right wings do is fiddle with the details of it, refining what is offered and what is not.


It doesn't help that the Labour Party and the Liberals are identical in almost all significant respects.

Also, didn't Vidal direct Caligula?

**** that guy.

Edited, Oct 8th 2009 10:53pm by zepoodle
#11 Oct 08 2009 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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He wrote the screen play, I think.

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#12 Oct 08 2009 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
He wrote the screen play, I think.


Whatever. It was two hours of decapitations sandwiched by orgies. Doesn't give me a good first impression.

What else did he work on that wasn't as crap?
#13 Oct 08 2009 at 8:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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SamiraLisa Simpson said: Friends? These are my only friends. Grown-up nerds like Gore Vidal, and even he's kissed more boys than I ever will.

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Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#14 Oct 08 2009 at 8:47 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:


Whatever. It was two hours of decapitations sandwiched by orgies. Doesn't give me a good first impression.

What else did he work on that wasn't as crap?


FYI, that was the film that he removed his name from, giving up his cut of the profit.
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#15 Oct 08 2009 at 8:53 PM Rating: Good
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zepoodle wrote:
Samira wrote:
He wrote the screen play, I think.


Whatever. It was two hours of decapitations sandwiched by orgies. Doesn't give me a good first impression.

What else did he work on that wasn't as crap?


You don't know who Gore Vidal is?
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Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#16 Oct 08 2009 at 9:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
SamiraLisa Simpson said: Friends? These are my only friends. Grown-up nerds like Gore Vidal, and even he's kissed more boys than I ever will.

Girls, Samira. Boys kiss girls.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#17 Oct 08 2009 at 10:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
zepoodle wrote:
Samira wrote:
He wrote the screen play, I think.


Whatever. It was two hours of decapitations sandwiched by orgies. Doesn't give me a good first impression.

What else did he work on that wasn't as crap?


You don't know who Gore Vidal is?


I know who Gore Vidal is. I just haven't seen any of his films other than Caligula.
#18 Oct 09 2009 at 2:30 AM Rating: Decent
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zepoodle wrote:
Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
zepoodle wrote:
Samira wrote:
He wrote the screen play, I think.


Whatever. It was two hours of decapitations sandwiched by orgies. Doesn't give me a good first impression.

What else did he work on that wasn't as crap?


You don't know who Gore Vidal is?


I know who Gore Vidal is. I just haven't seen any of his films other than Caligula.


Seeing as how the only thing you know about the man is that he was involved in making Caligula, it's pretty safe to say that you in fact do not know who he is.
#19 Oct 09 2009 at 5:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Turin wrote:
Seeing as how the only thing you know about the man is that he was involved in making Caligula, it's pretty safe to say that you in fact do not know who he is.


Well, I remember reading a book by him about a gay soldier when I was in high school. And he was in love with his best friend, except his friend wasn't totally gay, and years later he rapes him or something. I can't remember. I remember being upset about the ending.

Other than that, no, the only other thing I saw by him was Caligula, and that was ******* horrible. Which is kind of why I asked: what other films did he work on?
#20 Oct 09 2009 at 5:11 AM Rating: Excellent
zepoodle wrote:
thing I saw by him was Caligula, and that was @#%^ing horrible.


I may be mistaken about this, since I haven't seen Caligula is years, but... didn't it have Helen Mirren topless in it? Cos if that's the case, fuck it, give the NPP to Vidal. For his, you know, ideals.
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#21 Oct 09 2009 at 5:13 AM Rating: Decent
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:
I may be mistaken about this, since I haven't seen Caligula is years, but... didn't it have Helen Mirren topless in it? Cos if that's the case, fuck it, give the NPP to Vidal. For his, you know, ideals.


I applaud your ability to recognise Helen Mirren by her breasts.
#22 Oct 09 2009 at 5:22 AM Rating: Good
zepoodle wrote:
RedPhoenixxx wrote:
I may be mistaken about this, since I haven't seen Caligula is years, but... didn't it have Helen Mirren topless in it? Cos if that's the case, fuck it, give the NPP to Vidal. For his, you know, ideals.


I applaud your ability to recognise Helen Mirren by her breasts.


It's pretty much the only thing I remember about that movie.
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#23 Oct 09 2009 at 5:56 AM Rating: Good
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Zieg heil! Zieg heil! I am a proud facist saluting member of the Republican Party. I wear brown shirts, stuff liberals in ovens, and gleefully spray Zyclon B over Jophiel the Jew's posts. Unfortunately, as wrongheaded as he is he thinks it's fertilizer and it makes his post count grow even faster.

/goose steps off the stage

Totem
#24 Oct 09 2009 at 6:05 AM Rating: Good
Totem wrote:
Zieg heil! Zieg heil! I am a proud facist saluting member of the Republican Party. I wear brown shirts, stuff liberals in ovens, and gleefully spray Zyclon B over Jophiel the Jew's posts. Unfortunately, as wrongheaded as he is he thinks it's fertilizer and it makes his post count grow even faster.

/goose steps off the stage

Totem


Yeah, whatever dude, you're far too old to be part of the Hitler Youth anyway...
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#25 Oct 09 2009 at 6:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: thumbsup to Jophiel shout-outs
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#26 Oct 09 2009 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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I'm young at heart, Red. That's what counts. Well, that and how many BTUs your oven makes...

Totem
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