For Once I agree with ObamaFollow

That's not a flaw. That's a success of the system. If they have more free time and wish to stay in school and pursue other subjects of interest with that free time, that's f'n awesome.

Edited, Sep 27th 2009 9:52pm by BrownDuck

Ok so I made one typo. I still contend the rest of my argument was sound.

Quick question accidental mistake don't those words imply one another. I don't think you can purposefully make a mistake, because if you do its no longer a mistake but instead a demonstration, as for accidentally getting something right, that's I guess possible but not quite the opposite of accidental mistake.

This. It's an incredibly meaningless rallying cry. It just is an attempt to give government money to private companies by switching it all the schools' budgets to vendors who compete for government contracts.

Quick question: "accidental mistake" - don't those words imply one another?

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To answer the question: no, the words need not imply each other. At the very most, an accident might imply a mistake, a mistake doesn't imply an accident. You can make a mistake on purpose, for example, like the comma splice in the previous sentence.

Edited, Sep 27th 2009 11:51pm by Pensive

And pre-emptively, of course we could write a story about whether or not intentional mistakes are really mistakes and we could get into a whole discussion about logic and the status of public versus private value, but I'd rather just say that the words need not imply, but often do imply, each other.

And if you really want to, then I'd argue something like an accident is a failure of cognition, whereas a mistake has a sort of normative failure to it.

Ah OK I can see where your coming from. Though I'd simply like to say my mistake wasn't due to a general ignorance but rather a simple brain fart. In my haste typing I completely messed up on that word.

School choice programs have produced pretty unimpressive results across the board. In studies where students/parents were given free reign to pick schools and private schools could no longer self select better students (and didn't enjoy the innate selection bias of parents willing to pay) there hasn't been any significant change in test scores. In some, they just remained flat, in others one aspect would slightly increase but at the expense of a decrease in another area. Retention in the programs has been poor as well as parents came to the harsh realization that simply sending your kid of St. Scholastica didn't mean a better education.

Until we have a long string of evidence showing that school choice programs actually raise scores across the board to a significant degree, fighting to switch over the the entire system to private interests seems more about "smaller government" and breaking the teachers unions than it does about providing a better education for the children.

As for Smash's comments about the ingrained cultural aspects of the summer vacation, I largely agree although the matter is being taken out of some people's hands. More and more districts are going towards some sort of nearly year-round staggered schedule (four weeks on, one week off or something) to cope with overcrowding. That might, over time, change the mindset enough to start seriously extending the school day.

I'm all for making kids go to school year round. My grandson who had plenty of activities to keep his mind active all summer, complain to his teacher that they hadn't started 2nd grade work, when school started this year.

I'm also like to see Tracking come back, though it isn't PC. Kids that won't be looking at going to a good college, hold back those who are more academically incline. Bored students also often become behavior problems. Only thing that kept me in school after 10th grade was the fact that I planned on going to an private college to major in fine arts. That was at good public schools, were I was in the college track from the start.

30 years ago they had easy general classes for those that would be going to work right out of high school. Voc Tech students got bused to the county Voc Tech HS were they learn trades that would get them into jobs with the skills needed. Then back then we still had Art and Music and 2 recesses in Elementary school every day. If the weather kept us in the teacher would bring out board games for us to play.

My grandson gets so bored at school, whenever his class has to spend extra time on an subject he finds easy, such as math and reading, that he has gotten into fights, hitting other students and speaking back at the teacher.

Then there was also his singing songs from Dr Horrible and some Amine series that weren't age appropriate, in class. Parents had to block Youtube from his computer as punishment.

Maybe he wishes he doesn't help. I know I do on occasion.

Edited, Sep 28th 2009 2:08pm by CBD

I was going to stay out of this but that just hit a sore spot with me.

I say **** the Political Correctness ******** when it comes to education.

I was a straight A honors student up until 8th grade. I was also in an honors program designed specifically for gifted students. Knowing that I had to keep my grades up to stay in the honors program was the only reason I did my work and stayed in school. I enjoyed the program, we went to different museums, art institutes and other various field trips designed to teach us things outside of the normal academic curriculum. I started in the program in 1st grade and stayed in it until 8th grade.

Now I was raised in a lower income area, so the schools didn't have a whole lot of money. One of the few programs that wasn't dropped was the honors program I was a part of. The program was pretty small, 8-10 kids if I remember correctly. The problem started when someone realized that their were only white kids in the program. Entrance into the program had nothing to do with gender, it was based purely on an entrance exam, similar to a Wonderlic exam, and good grades were a requirement to stay in. The problem was that no student from another ethnic background had passed the entrance exam. They threatened to pull the program unless they brought in kids from different ethnic backgrounds. Now I don't have a problem with this, my problem is that the qualifications were lowered to get these other students in, which brought down the level of the class. Over a few months the level of the class dropped to a point that their was no difference between the honors program and normal classes. Losing the only challenge I had in school pretty much killed any motivation I had left to continue school. I pretty much stopped participating, my grades dropped and regardless of my 8 years worth of outstanding test scores, I was labeled as a problem student and dropped into the very basic classes, further adding to the problem.

In 6th grade I took a test called the IGAP (Illinois Goal Assessment Program) test. Every score on that test, except one, was PHS (Post High School, college level). Even with those scores I was kept in classes with other students whos scores ranged from similar to mine, to well below their current level of education.

The only way the problem is going to be fixed is if each student is evaluated and placed in classes based on their current level of progression and knowledge. This could easily be assessed with various aptitude tests given at the end of the school year. Based on the scores of those tests, students could attend classes based on their needs. Unfortunately, this would require a complete overhaul of the public school system, which most people would oppose based purely on a financial basis.

I just think it's BS that the level of education being offered to students is decided on a monetary basis instead of an academic one.

I really don't get this. I don't understand how your only motivation to make good grades comes from being in a harder class. You still would've been a part of the "honors program," right? You still would've gotten to go to the museums and what not? The only thing holding you back was yourself. Why do we blame the schools for not being "challenging" enough, when we don't place any blame on the students and their parents for pushing themselves into doing good?