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#27REDACTED, Posted: Sep 21 2009 at 11:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#28 Sep 21 2009 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
On the other hand, this certainly points up why many of us support a public option for those who truly can't afford private health care.

Only unemployed alcoholics can't afford private health care! They need to get off their asses and start a multimillion dollar corporation from scratch so they can go to the doctor once a year.
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#29 Sep 21 2009 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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The Senate bill calls the fine an "excise tax".
Bill wrote:
The consequence for not maintaining insurance would be an excise tax. If a taxpayer‘s MAGI is between 100-300 percent of FPL, the excise tax for failing to obtain coverage for an individual in a taxpayer unit (either as a taxpayer or an individual claimed as a dependent) is $750 per year. However, the maximum penalty for the taxpayer unit is $1,500. If a taxpayer‘s MAGI is above 300 percent of FPL the penalty for failing to obtain coverage for an individual in a taxpayer unit (either as a taxpayer or as an individual claimed as a dependent) is $950 year. However, the maximum penalty amount a family above 300 percent of FPL would pay is $3,800.

However, I can't think of a way where a fine for failing to carry insurance falls into the definition of an excise tax.
IRS.gov wrote:
Excise taxes are taxes paid when purchases are made on a specific good, such as gasoline. Excise taxes are often included in the price of the product. There are also excise taxes on activities, such as on wagering or on highway usage by trucks. Excise Tax has several general excise tax programs. One of the major components of the excise program is motor fuel.

You can read Wikipedia or whatever for more examples but the examples seem to all be things you do that get taxed (buying certain products or sevices), not things you fail to do.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#30 Sep 21 2009 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Jophed,
Quote:
Someone doesn't want to talk about giving up his freedoms any longer

Only a liberal doesn't see the relationship between taxes and freedom.

Or wiretaps and freeedom, AMIRITE?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#31 Sep 21 2009 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Jophed,

Quote:
Someone doesn't want to talk about giving up his freedoms any longer


Only a liberal doesn't see the relationship between taxes and freedom.

You don't want to pay taxes?

Well, you're talking to the right guy if you want to start a Tea Party!
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#32REDACTED, Posted: Sep 21 2009 at 11:28 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Samy,
#33 Sep 21 2009 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
Dictionary definition arguments always turn out well.
#34 Sep 21 2009 at 11:32 AM Rating: Default
Debo,

Quote:
You don't want to pay taxes?


I don't mind paying taxes. What I do mind is how those taxes are spent. Providing money for people who are careless and just plain stupid with their life choices is not my idea of a good investment. How long do you keep throwing other peoples money at a bad investment?
#35REDACTED, Posted: Sep 21 2009 at 11:33 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Duck,
#36 Sep 21 2009 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
Debo,

Quote:
You don't want to pay taxes?


I don't mind paying taxes. What I do mind is how those taxes are spent. Providing money for people who are careless and just plain stupid with their life choices is not my idea of a good investment. How long do you keep throwing other peoples money at a bad investment?
Nearly every tax you "don't mind paying" benefits someone you don't approve of in some way. Shut the **** up about your god damn taxes.
#37 Sep 21 2009 at 11:37 AM Rating: Default
Ash,

Quote:
Shut the @#%^ up about your god damn taxes.


Spoken like a true communist.

#38 Sep 21 2009 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Ash,

Quote:
Shut the @#%^ up about your god damn taxes.


Spoken like a true communist.

Buuuuurn. McCarthy wannabe.
#39 Sep 21 2009 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dictionary definition arguments are stupid because dictionaries aren't intended to give nuanced or in depth answers to what something is. If you want to debate legal definitions, you use a legal text. If you want to debate medical stuff, you use a medical text. Debating taxes would be better done with an economic text of some sort. Maybe the economic text would agree with those calling it a tax (I haven't looked) but it's better than a dictionary.

On the other hand, maybe this means the GOP will start accepting dictionary definitions of marriage with include same sex couples. I mean, hey, it's in the dictionary, right?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#40 Sep 21 2009 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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publiusvarus wrote:
Debo,

Quote:
You don't want to pay taxes?


I don't mind paying taxes. What I do mind is how those taxes are spent. Providing money for people who are careless and just plain stupid with their life choices is not my idea of a good investment. How long do you keep throwing other peoples money at a bad investment?

We've been occupying Iraq, what, six years now?
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#41REDACTED, Posted: Sep 21 2009 at 12:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Debo,
#42 Sep 21 2009 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Only a liberal doesn't see the relationship between taxes and freedom.


You might see a relationship between taxes and freedom, specifically that they are inversely proportional to each other, but only if you were a complete fucking idiot who has no idea of the value of things beyond their material worth in imagined currency, because such a person would apparently be completely unable to perform axiology or ethical appraisal beyond the act of capitulating with exchange rates, those rates of which are dictated to him by banks and government institutions; ironic, that such a focus on numerical and monetary value, meant to enable your freedom, would enslave you more than any raise in taxes.

Materialistic, shortsighted cunt.
#43 Sep 21 2009 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't want my tax dollars going towards defense, only to people who make bad life choices. So now we're in the clear.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#44 Sep 21 2009 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
Debo,

Quote:
We've been occupying Iraq, what, six years now?


I don't mind my tax dollars going towards national defense. I do mind my tax dollars going towards someone who's made bad life choices and are suffering the consequences of those choices.



Those are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
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#45 Sep 21 2009 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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in before gbaji's wall of text on taxes.
#46 Sep 21 2009 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
publiusvarus wrote:
Debo,

Quote:
We've been occupying Iraq, what, six years now?


I don't mind my tax dollars going towards national defense. I do mind my tax dollars going towards someone who's made bad life choices and are suffering the consequences of those choices.


I have two points to make:

1. Your tax dollars go towards supporting the penal system, which is taking care of people who have made bad life choices (you know, like rape and murder, not just a McDonald's cheeseburger) and are suffering from the consequences of those choices.

2. Your tax dollars are already paying for the people who do not currently have health insurance because of (a) "bad life choices" and (b) pre-existing conditions that have nothing to do with bad choices. They use the emergency room and then they stiff the bill and the government funded hospital has to eat the bill, and that cost gets passed on to the tax payers.

Grow up, Varus. You sound like a whiney child.
#47REDACTED, Posted: Sep 21 2009 at 1:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Pensive,
#48 Sep 21 2009 at 1:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd stop eating escargo. They're over rated. And French.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#49REDACTED, Posted: Sep 21 2009 at 1:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Tulip,
#50 Sep 21 2009 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
Debo,

Quote:
We've been occupying Iraq, what, six years now?


I don't mind my tax dollars going towards national defense. I do mind my tax dollars going towards someone who's made bad life choices and are suffering the consequences of those choices.

Crap, I just realized I'd have to reopen the whole "Iraq is not a threat to the US" argument again, which I really don't feel like doing.

Let's just state that you'd rather bankroll the poor downtrodden populace of some backwater middle-eastern country than to help your own people.
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#51 Sep 21 2009 at 1:25 PM Rating: Default
Jophed,

Quote:
I'd stop eating escargo. They're over rated. And French.


Should I stop eating french fries and french toast as well?

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