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#77REDACTED, Posted: Sep 10 2009 at 8:47 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ash,
#78 Sep 10 2009 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
Do you think irresponsible people should be protected from their on idiocy?
Not specifically. But I DO think that all people should be protected from death and illness. This is currently not the case.
#79 Sep 10 2009 at 8:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Malpractice is not the main problem. It is a perceived problem carefully nurtured by malpractice insurance companies for many years now.

Most doctors practice medicine their entire careers without ever facing a credible malpractice suit.

Even those in high-risk fields such as surgery will only face a couple, statistically.

I'm not against tort reform, but it is by no means the main problem facing the 46 million uninsured Americans right now.

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#80REDACTED, Posted: Sep 10 2009 at 8:52 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ash,
#81 Sep 10 2009 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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publiusvarus wrote:
Ash,

Quote:
Not specifically. But I DO think that all people should be protected from death and illness. This is currently not the case.


The key is do you think those people should be RESPONSIBLE in anyway for protecting their family from those things?

The key is do YOU think the government shouldn't be?
#82REDACTED, Posted: Sep 10 2009 at 8:55 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Samy,
#83REDACTED, Posted: Sep 10 2009 at 8:57 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ash,
#84 Sep 10 2009 at 8:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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You're a f*cking moron if you think most doctors go their entire career without dealing with numerous frivolous lawsuits.


I've worked in the medical field. Cheap insults don't make me un-know what I know, bub.

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This number is a lie Democrats use to SCARE people into supporting a communist plan.


Tell it to the U.S. Census Bureau.



Edited, Sep 10th 2009 9:58am by Samira
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#85 Sep 10 2009 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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The second I get my doctorate in astrophysics, I'm moving to Europe, and that's no exaggeration.
#86 Sep 10 2009 at 8:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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The CBO, under Bush, reported that malpractice suits make up less than 2% of health care costs. Tort reform there is a gimme to the GOP, not a realistic solution to the problem.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#87 Sep 10 2009 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Varrus, what the **** do you think a government SHOULD be for? Give me a specific definition. Because my definition is "a publicly appointed body that provides for the safety and well-being of the populace that put it into place." What part of that does not include providing (note: not FORCING, PROVIDING) healthcare?
#88 Sep 10 2009 at 9:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Reuters wrote:
The number of people living in the United States without health insurance rose to 46.3 million in 2008 from 45.7 million a year earlier, a U.S. Census Bureau official said on Thursday.

David Johnson, who heads the Census Bureau's housing and household economic statistics division, told a telephone conference the data were collected in March of 2008 -- before the sharp economic downturn in the latter part of the year which saw many more people lose jobs and health insurance.

March '08. Obviously a liberal plot.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#89 Sep 10 2009 at 9:08 AM Rating: Good
publiusvarus wrote:
Tulip,

Do you think cash for klunkers was successful? Answer the question.


Why should I answer the question? It has nothing to do with the topic at hand. To stave off your curiosity, yes. I do. I hope to hear nothing else about this program from you now. I've answered your question even though it has NOTHING to do with healthcare.

Varus wrote:
I wrote:
What I want is for everyone to be able to afford to go to the @#%^ing doctor without needing to take out a second mortgage.


At what cost? Do we sign over every vestige of freedom and independence for this safety net?


What the @#%^ are you smoking...?

Varus wrote:
I wrote:
What I want is for doctors to be able to practice medicine without having to jump through hoops to make insurance companies comply with that they're supposed to be doing in the first place.


I promise you the doctors would rather not have to jump through the legal hoops caused by malpractice costs than the insurance companies.


I promise you that the only complaint I hear from all of my doctors is about insurance and nothing to do with malpractice costs. Strawman argument. Not only that, but Obama said last night that this would be addressed. Get on the same page with the rest of us.

Varus wrote:
I wrote:
What I want is for insurance companies to stop dropping people because they're too expensive to cover.


So you want insurance companies to completely ignore everything they know about risk exposure because you think it's too expensive? Why don't we just arbitrarily reduce costs on everything if it's simply that easy?


I want insurance companies to leave the medical field to the medical professionals. If my doctor thinks I need something done, by god I need to have it done. My insurance company does not know better than my doctor, and it's high fucking time someone told them that.

Varus wrote:
I wrote:
What I want is for people to actually be able to get medical care, then actually have it paid by the insurance company they have been paying for a decade.


People can get medical care. The myth that they can't is put forth by people like yourself who don't take personal responsibility into account for anything people do.


You're a fucking idiot. Do you know that? 16% of Americans are going uninsured. 16 percent. There are about 304,000,000 people in the United States. That leaves 48,640,000 people currently uninsured. That is WAY too high for a civilized country.

Edited, Sep 10th 2009 12:17pm by Belkira
#90 Sep 10 2009 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
Professor AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
The second I get my doctorate in astrophysics, I'm moving to Europe, and that's no exaggeration.


And I'll have some weed and hookers waiting for you!

Although, to be fair, we have some cunts in Europe too. But they're easily recognisable due to their Belgian accent.

Sorry Zievaar. It's nothing personal, I was brought up in France in the 80s, it's in my blood.
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#91 Sep 10 2009 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I promise you that the only complaint I hear from all of my doctors is about insurance and nothing to do with malpractice costs. Strawman argument. Not only that, but Obama said last night that this would be addressed. Get on the same page with the rest of us.


Ok, it's entirely possible I missed something here, since I only read the first couple of posts and the last couple in this thread, but this comment strikes me as odd. Exactly what kind of insurance do you think your doctors are complaining about? Patient insurance? I suppose it's possible in your neck of the woods that doctors interface with patient insurance companies daily, or at least often enough to be more than mildly aware of the hassle that is processing claims, but I'd hazard a guess that it's unlikely. Patient claims are most often handled by the office staff, and rarely do insurance claim issues bubble over into the normal practice.

Here in Illinois, every doctor office I go to has a sign posted in several locations, including the inside door of every waiting room that begins with something like "For 2 years, we worked to settle things. Now, insurance companies want to re-open the wound..." which is basically a memo to the patients saying "Sorry, but we're going to have to keep jacking up your costs because our malpractice insurance is breaking the bank". Here, when a doctor complains about "insurance costs", it is precisely malpractice insurance to which they are referring.

#92 Sep 10 2009 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
The 5% that account for 70% of the workforce would LOVE to offer health insurance to their employees, but either can't afford to do so or are having their backs broken because of it. Having the public option available might just make it affordable enough for the small businesses to finally make it a reality, or to not have to terminate benefits.

Edit: Also, if doctors wouldn't do stupid **** like cut off the wrong leg, there'd be no medical malpractice suits.

Edited, Sep 10th 2009 2:23pm by catwho
#93 Sep 10 2009 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Here, when a doctor complains about "insurance costs", it is precisely malpractice insurance to which they are referring.

I posted about this in the past and don't feel like looking up the same cites again but the rising cost of malpractice insurance is closer tied to the insurance companies involvement in investments than it is tied to the cost of lawsuits. Malpractice premiums have gone up much faster than the rate of suit payouts, largely because of losses in the financial markets and the companies need to get the money back from somewhere.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#94 Sep 10 2009 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
BrownDuck wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I promise you that the only complaint I hear from all of my doctors is about insurance and nothing to do with malpractice costs. Strawman argument. Not only that, but Obama said last night that this would be addressed. Get on the same page with the rest of us.


Ok, it's entirely possible I missed something here, since I only read the first couple of posts and the last couple in this thread, but this comment strikes me as odd. Exactly what kind of insurance do you think your doctors are complaining about? Patient insurance? I suppose it's possible in your neck of the woods that doctors interface with patient insurance companies daily, or at least often enough to be more than mildly aware of the hassle that is processing claims, but I'd hazard a guess that it's unlikely. Patient claims are most often handled by the office staff, and rarely do insurance claim issues bubble over into the normal practice.

Here in Illinois, every doctor office I go to has a sign posted in several locations, including the inside door of every waiting room that begins with something like "For 2 years, we worked to settle things. Now, insurance companies want to re-open the wound..." which is basically a memo to the patients saying "Sorry, but we're going to have to keep jacking up your costs because our malpractice insurance is breaking the bank". Here, when a doctor complains about "insurance costs", it is precisely malpractice insurance to which they are referring.


Yes, patient insurance. Not malpractice insurance.

When I was first diagnosed with Crohn's, I was in my doctors office almost daily, in tears, trying to find out why my insurance wouldn't cover Remicade. My doctor worked with his staff to find a way to get things worked out. He wrote letters, made phone calls, all himself. Ok, my doctor might not have actually typed the letters himself, but he ditated them. My Gyno told me the other day that she and her staff have to get very "creative" with how they code things when they send it to the insurance companies in order to get them to pay for needed procedures. Clients of mine have had to ask their doctors for help many, many times to get things processed through the insurance companies.

Maybe you're lucky. Maybe you don't have any major medical issues, and so your insurance company pays for your office visits. Maybe your doctor doesn't have a reason to talk to you about your insurance company. Every single doctor I've ever had, not to mention quite a few pharmacists, I've talked at length about my coverage and what we would need to do to make sure that whatever care I needed in order to get well would be covered by my insurance. Not with the nurse or the office clerk, but my doctor. Not that I haven't had the discussions with nurses, but the doctors are painfully aware of how fucked up our insurance industry is.
#95REDACTED, Posted: Sep 10 2009 at 10:28 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Samy,
#96 Sep 10 2009 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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publiusvarus wrote:
The GOP has put forth two amendments specifically excluding illegals and both have been rejected.

I'd explain how this isn't the same thing as what you're claiming but you seem the easily confused type.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#97 Sep 10 2009 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
publiusvarus wrote:
The GOP has put forth two amendments specifically excluding illegals and both have been rejected.

I'd explain how this isn't the same thing as what you're claiming but you seem the easily confused type.


I was thinking the same thing. Smiley: lol
#98 Sep 10 2009 at 10:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Patient claims are most often handled by the office staff, and rarely do insurance claim issues bubble over into the normal practice.


In many practices it's the same staff. In others there is a huge cost incurred to pay people off site to process bills and deal with health insurance companies trying to get bills paid in some kind of timely manner.

It's a major, expensive problem that self-perpetuates. Your medical fees rise because of the hassle of getting the bills paid by the insurance. Your insurance fees rise because the medical fees do.




Edited, Sep 10th 2009 11:35am by Samira
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#99REDACTED, Posted: Sep 10 2009 at 10:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Samy,
#100 Sep 10 2009 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yes, I do. Medicare paid promptly.

Next question.

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#101REDACTED, Posted: Sep 10 2009 at 10:42 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
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